Call Monday 24 Jan 2005

[Daniel Stone]

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 05:44:36PM -0800, Torrey Lyons wrote:
> You have some good arguments, but this is disingenuous. There are 
> dependencies between the parts of xc which are not trivial. Recursing 
> "make;sudo make install" through all parts of xlibs, xapps, etc. will 
> not account for these dependencies. As far as I can tell these 
> dependencies are only embodied in the Imakefiles.

The modular tree uses pkg-config to this end.

> I have asked for this before, but we need a (real) solution to this 
> problem: I have a clean system with nothing from X.Org installed on 
> it and I want to do a fresh checkout, build, and install. Before I 
> did:
> 
> cvs checkout xc; cd xc; make World; sudo make install install.man
> 
> That is truly trivial. What is the equivalent prescription in the 
> modular tree to replace this?

What do you want to 'checkout, build, and install'?  If you want the entire
library stack that has been modularised to date:
for i in xtrans Xproto Xau Xdmcp XExtensions XCalibrateExt FixesExt ResourceExt
         Rander Render X11 DamageExt CompositeExt ICE Xext Xfixes Xdamage
	 Xcomposite Xrender Xrandr Xi Xv SM Xt PanoramiXExt Xinerama Xmu XRes
	 Xcursor Xp Xpm Xaw ScreenSaverExt Xss xkbfile xkbui RecordExt Xtst
	 XTrap XF86DGAExt Xxf86dga XF86MiscExt Xxf86misc XF86VMExt Xxf86vm
	 XCalibrate Xft Xfontcache Xfont; do
	pushd $i
	./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr
	make
	sudo make install
	popd
done

I know because I have bootstrapped my way with a machine with no monolithic bits
ever having been intsalled on it, up to the top of the Debrix stack, cleanly.  I
still have some Debrix bits to commit.

I did this not because it's an even halfway worthwhile use case, but to prove
that the modular tree can be used totally independently of the monolithic tree,
and is ready to make a clean break.

> I understand that 3rd party Linux distributions have their own 
> distribution specific packaging solutions and for them the answer to 
> my question is not very interesting. However, I don't think that 
> X.Org can or should abdicate to distributors the responsibility for 
> easily building the entire system.

Building your own UNIX system from scratch or whatever is a totally
uninteresting use case, and not one I care anywhere near enough about to start
compromising core goals for.  If you're making your OS, life is tough.  There
are these difficult things with C libraries, compilers, and bootstrapping the
entire thing, that suck a lot more than building X from bottom to top.  There's
a reason why everyone uses distributions.

(For what it's worth, I don't see the use case for building the *entire* X stack
 again either as a developer, because I can't think of anything short of
 changing the entire wire protocol that would impact everything.)
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