<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Didi,<br><br></div><div>After discussing with Yan offline I think that we indeed don't need to install the files into the guest and merely having the files on the ISO is enough.<br><br></div><div>BTW I re-checked what we do in d/s, and while we don't ever install the files into the guest and don't provide them as part of the WGT installer itself, these are still available on the ISO, so me saying that we don't *ship* debug information in d/s was incorrect - it appears that we *do ship* it, but we don't ever install it on the guests.<br></div><div>These are made sure to match the version actually installed from the ISO by the installer through the build process.<br></div><div><br></div><div>So I think it means that we should bring the u/s in sync. with our d/s.<br></div><div><br></div>Thanks in advance,<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Yan Vugenfirer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yvugenfi@redhat.com" target="_blank">yvugenfi@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><br><div><div><div class="h5"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 31 Dec 2017, at 08:55, Yedidyah Bar David <<a href="mailto:didi@redhat.com" target="_blank">didi@redhat.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_7259852263172489508Apple-interchange-newline"><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:36 AM, Vadim Rozenfeld <</span><a href="mailto:vrozenfe@redhat.com" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">vrozenfe@redhat.com</a><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">> wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br><br>On 29/12/17 03:31, Yan Vugenfirer wrote:<br><br><br><br>On 28 Dec 2017, at 16:44, Amnon Ilan <<a href="mailto:ailan@redhat.com" target="_blank">ailan@redhat.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message -----<br><br>From: "Lev Veyde" <<a href="mailto:lveyde@redhat.com" target="_blank">lveyde@redhat.com</a>><br>To: "Yedidyah Bar David" <<a href="mailto:didi@redhat.com" target="_blank">didi@redhat.com</a>><br>Cc: "Frediano Ziglio" <<a href="mailto:fziglio@redhat.com" target="_blank">fziglio@redhat.com</a>>, "Christophe Fergeau"<br><<a href="mailto:cfergeau@redhat.com" target="_blank">cfergeau@redhat.com</a>>,<br><a href="mailto:spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank">spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.<wbr>org</a>, "Amnon Ilan" <<a href="mailto:ailan@redhat.com" target="_blank">ailan@redhat.com</a>><br>Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 1:13:24 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Spice-devel] [nsis v3 2/2] build: Don't add .pdb debug files<br>to the installer<br><br>Hi Didi (and the guys),<br><br>We don't ship debug information in our d/s WGT, and personally I'm not sure<br>how useful it really may be, e.g. if the customers will get BSOD if that<br>will show any more useful information.<br><br>Luckily our VirtIO-Win drivers are quite stable, so we don't have many such<br>issues anyhow.<br>But I think it's best to see what VirtIO-Win guys think about it.<br>Amnon, what is your view on this?<br><br><br>I do not think we need to install pdb files, but should have it accessible<br>somewhere.<br><br>Vadim, Yan, can you comment on that?<br><br><br>Hello,<br><br>I think they should be kept together with build artefacts. When we get bug<br>reports from the field we use pdb files distributed with specific build ISO.<br>But if you repackage the virtio-win package into RHV-guest-tools installer,<br>then I don’t see specific need to keep PDB files as long as we can clearly<br>connect between RHV-guest-tools version and virtio-win version.<br><br>If we want to let end users running live or postmortem debug session on<br>their own, then shipping .pdb files is a must.<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Is it a must to have them preinstalled?</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I realize it is, if you have a one-time non-reproducible failure.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">But if it happens more than once, you can install a -debug or -pdb</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">package we'll provide with the pdb files, so that next time you can</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">debug.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div><div>Are you proposing to have debug package? As far as I know we don’t have such package today.</div><div>It can be a solution for a future.</div><div><br></div><div>For now, in my opinion, PDB files should be part of ISO and RPM. They don’t need to be installed on the guest by the guest tools installer.</div><div><br></div>Best regards,</div><div>Yan.</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Having in the same package means it's more comfortable to debug in</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">general and also possible to debug hard-to-reproduce failures.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Having them in a separate package means that users that do not need</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">to debug, do not have to spend time/space/bandwidth to install them.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">So it's a tradeoff, not a pure yes/no question.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>Vadim.<br><br><br>Best regards,<br>Yan.<br><br><br>Thanks,<br>Amnon<br><br><br>My personal opinion is that for u/s users we may provide these files as a<br>separate package or simply forward them to the u/s VirtIO-Win ISO.<br>However I don't mind to keep things as is and having them as part of the<br>base installer for simplicity of distribution.<br>After all the new versions are not frequent and have to be downloaded only<br>once per oVirt instance, so the increased download size should not be an<br>issue.<br><br>If anything, I'm more concerned with the waste of the disk space of the VM,<br>and even that should not be a critical issue in most cases.<br>So it would be nice to have an option to install the debug information<br>during the install, so the user could choose by himself.<br><br>Thanks in advance,<br><br>On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Yedidyah Bar David <<a href="mailto:didi@redhat.com" target="_blank">didi@redhat.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Frediano Ziglio <<a href="mailto:fziglio@redhat.com" target="_blank">fziglio@redhat.com</a>><br>wrote:<br><br><br>On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:26:00AM -0500, Frediano Ziglio wrote:<br><br><br>The .pdb files contain the debug information for the drivers. They<br>increase significantly the size of the installer, so it's better<br><br>not to<br><br>ship them.<br><br><br>On the other side bug report will contain much less informations.<br>Not really sure about it.<br><br><br>Which bug reports? :) (I don't think I ever got any report about driver<br>crashes). I would reconsider when we start getting bug reports where we<br>need these symbols.<br><br>Christophe<br><br><br>No idea, was just thinking that if somebody packaged these files maybe<br><br>they want<br><br>them installed. They are not directly in the virtio-win package but in<br><br>the ISO.<br><br>Maybe we should remove from the ISO too ?<br>I had a look at the inf files and they not reference the pdb files.<br><br><br>Adding Lev.<br><br>Lev - do we ship pdb files in RHV-guest-tools?<br>Did we ever get bug reports about drivers that included relevant<br>information<br>which is not available without the pdb files?<br><br>Thanks,<br>--<br>Didi<br><br><br><br><br>--<br><br>Lev Veyde<br><br>Software Engineer, RHCE | RHCVA | MCITP<br><br>Red Hat Israel<br><br><<a href="https://www.redhat.com" target="_blank">https://www.redhat.com</a>><br><br><a href="mailto:lev@redhat.com" target="_blank">lev@redhat.com</a> | <a href="mailto:lveyde@redhat.com" target="_blank">lveyde@redhat.com</a><br><<a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank">https://red.ht/sig</a>><br>TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <<a href="https://redhat.com/trusted" target="_blank">https://redhat.com/trusted</a>><br><br><br><br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">--<span class="m_7259852263172489508Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Didi</span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br><div><p style="font-weight:bold;margin:0;padding:0;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase;margin-bottom:0"><span>Lev</span> <span>Veyde</span></p>
<p style="font-weight:normal;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>Software Engineer</span><span style="color:rgb(204,204,204)">, <span style="font-weight:normal;color:#aaa;margin:0">RHCE | RHCVA | MCITP</span></span></p>
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