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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31/12/17 19:24, Yan Vugenfirer
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:16A7DBCD-6B22-4E76-8E74-DD23ECCCE58B@redhat.com">
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        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">On 31 Dec 2017, at 08:55, Yedidyah Bar David
            <<a href="mailto:didi@redhat.com" class=""
              moz-do-not-send="true">didi@redhat.com</a>> wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
              12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 3:36
              AM, Vadim Rozenfeld <</span><a
              href="mailto:vrozenfe@redhat.com" style="font-family:
              Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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              normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
              0px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vrozenfe@redhat.com</a><span
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
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              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">> wrote:</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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            <blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica;
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              <br class="">
              On 29/12/17 03:31, Yan Vugenfirer wrote:<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              On 28 Dec 2017, at 16:44, Amnon Ilan <<a
                href="mailto:ailan@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">ailan@redhat.com</a>> wrote:<br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              ----- Original Message -----<br class="">
              <br class="">
              From: "Lev Veyde" <<a href="mailto:lveyde@redhat.com"
                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">lveyde@redhat.com</a>><br
                class="">
              To: "Yedidyah Bar David" <<a
                href="mailto:didi@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">didi@redhat.com</a>><br
                class="">
              Cc: "Frediano Ziglio" <<a
                href="mailto:fziglio@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">fziglio@redhat.com</a>>,
              "Christophe Fergeau"<br class="">
              <<a href="mailto:cfergeau@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">cfergeau@redhat.com</a>>,<br
                class="">
              <a href="mailto:spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org"
                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org</a>,
              "Amnon Ilan" <<a href="mailto:ailan@redhat.com"
                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ailan@redhat.com</a>><br
                class="">
              Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 1:13:24 PM<br class="">
              Subject: Re: [Spice-devel] [nsis v3 2/2] build: Don't add
              .pdb debug files<br class="">
              to the installer<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Hi Didi (and the guys),<br class="">
              <br class="">
              We don't ship debug information in our d/s WGT, and
              personally I'm not sure<br class="">
              how useful it really may be, e.g. if the customers will
              get BSOD if that<br class="">
              will show any more useful information.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Luckily our VirtIO-Win drivers are quite stable, so we
              don't have many such<br class="">
              issues anyhow.<br class="">
              But I think it's best to see what VirtIO-Win guys think
              about it.<br class="">
              Amnon, what is your view on this?<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              I do not think we need to install pdb files, but should
              have it accessible<br class="">
              somewhere.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Vadim, Yan, can you comment on that?<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              Hello,<br class="">
              <br class="">
              I think they should be kept together with build artefacts.
              When we get bug<br class="">
              reports from the field we use pdb files distributed with
              specific build ISO.<br class="">
              But if you repackage the virtio-win package into
               RHV-guest-tools installer,<br class="">
              then I don’t see specific need to keep PDB files as long
              as we can clearly<br class="">
              connect between  RHV-guest-tools version and virtio-win
              version.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              If we want to let end users running live or postmortem
              debug session on<br class="">
              their own, then shipping .pdb files is a must.<br class="">
            </blockquote>
            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">Is it a must to have them
              preinstalled?</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
              normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
              text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">I realize it is, if you have
              a one-time non-reproducible failure.</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">But if it happens more than
              once, you can install a -debug or -pdb</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">package we'll provide with
              the pdb files, so that next time you can</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">debug.</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div>Are you proposing to have debug package? As far as I know
          we don’t have such package today.</div>
        <div>It can be a solution for a future.</div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        <div>For now, in my opinion, PDB files should be part of ISO and
          RPM. They don’t need to be installed on the guest by the guest
          tools installer.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    +1 <br>
    Usually there is no need to install .pdb file on a target system,
    unless a driver provides WPP tracing support and a user wants to
    watch trace <br>
    logs coming from that driver. <br>
    <br>
    Cheers,<br>
    Vadim.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:16A7DBCD-6B22-4E76-8E74-DD23ECCCE58B@redhat.com">
      <div>
        <div><br class="">
        </div>
        Best regards,</div>
      <div>Yan.</div>
      <div><br class="">
      </div>
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
              12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">Having in the same package
              means it's more comfortable to debug in</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">general and also possible to
              debug hard-to-reproduce failures.</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">Having them in a separate
              package means that users that do not need</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">to debug, do not have to
              spend time/space/bandwidth to install them.</span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">So it's a tradeoff, not a
              pure yes/no question.</span><br style="font-family:
              Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
              0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"
              class="">
            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica;
              font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
              normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
              orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
              text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="">
              Vadim.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              Best regards,<br class="">
              Yan.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              Thanks,<br class="">
              Amnon<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              My personal opinion is that for u/s users we may provide
              these files as a<br class="">
              separate package or simply forward them to the u/s
              VirtIO-Win ISO.<br class="">
              However I don't mind to keep things as is and having them
              as part of the<br class="">
              base installer for simplicity of distribution.<br class="">
              After all the new versions are not frequent and have to be
              downloaded only<br class="">
              once per oVirt instance, so the increased download size
              should not be an<br class="">
              issue.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              If anything, I'm more concerned with the waste of the disk
              space of the VM,<br class="">
              and even that should not be a critical issue in most
              cases.<br class="">
              So it would be nice to have an option to install the debug
              information<br class="">
              during the install, so the user could choose by himself.<br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              Thanks in advance,<br class="">
              <br class="">
              On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Yedidyah Bar David <<a
                href="mailto:didi@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">didi@redhat.com</a>> wrote:<br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Frediano Ziglio <<a
                href="mailto:fziglio@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">fziglio@redhat.com</a>><br
                class="">
              wrote:<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:26:00AM -0500, Frediano Ziglio
              wrote:<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              The .pdb files contain the debug information for the
              drivers. They<br class="">
              increase significantly the size of the installer, so it's
              better<br class="">
              <br class="">
              not to<br class="">
              <br class="">
              ship them.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              On the other side bug report will contain much less
              informations.<br class="">
              Not really sure about it.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              Which bug reports? :) (I don't think I ever got any report
              about driver<br class="">
              crashes). I would reconsider when we start getting bug
              reports where we<br class="">
              need these symbols.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Christophe<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              No idea, was just thinking that if somebody packaged these
              files maybe<br class="">
              <br class="">
              they want<br class="">
              <br class="">
              them installed. They are not directly in the virtio-win
              package but in<br class="">
              <br class="">
              the ISO.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Maybe we should remove from the ISO too ?<br class="">
              I had a look at the inf files and they not reference the
              pdb files.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              Adding Lev.<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Lev - do we ship pdb files in RHV-guest-tools?<br class="">
              Did we ever get bug reports about drivers that included
              relevant<br class="">
              information<br class="">
              which is not available without the pdb files?<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Thanks,<br class="">
              --<br class="">
              Didi<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              --<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Lev Veyde<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Software Engineer, RHCE | RHCVA | MCITP<br class="">
              <br class="">
              Red Hat Israel<br class="">
              <br class="">
              <<a href="https://www.redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.redhat.com</a>><br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              <a href="mailto:lev@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">lev@redhat.com</a> | <a
                href="mailto:lveyde@redhat.com" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">lveyde@redhat.com</a><br class="">
              <<a href="https://red.ht/sig" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://red.ht/sig</a>><br
                class="">
              TRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED. <<a
                href="https://redhat.com/trusted" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://redhat.com/trusted</a>><br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
              <br class="">
            </blockquote>
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            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
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              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
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              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">--<span
                class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
              style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
              font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
              font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
              start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
              white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
              -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
              inline !important;" class="">Didi</span></div>
        </blockquote>
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      <br class="">
    </blockquote>
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