[systemd-devel] [PATCH 1/2] core: Refuse to run a user instance when the system hasn't been booted with systemd.

[Kok, Auke-jan H]

On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Thomas Bächler <thomas at archlinux.org> wrote:
> Am 07.10.2012 02:48, schrieb Kok, Auke-jan H:
>>> No, I took care of a dbus session. I could even (manually, using qdbus)
>>> send the right dbus signal to the systemd user instance so it would exit
>>> itself, so that part worked.
>>
>> Forgive me for not knowing Qt,
>
> 'qdbus' is just like 'dbus-send', but simpler to use.
>
>> but does that set
>> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, and enable dbus.socket under the systemd
>> --user instance? Did you start a dbus-daemon manually, or let systemd
>> activate it?
>
> I started a dbus session manually, exported the DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS
> and systemd --user successfully picked up on it.
>
> As I said, dbus was NOT the problem here.
>
> Btw, there is no dbus.socket under /usr/lib/systemd/user in my system
> and I have no idea what it would look like. On my systemd-booted system,
> the user instance would use an existing session dbus as expected and
> there is no need for systemd to spawn its own one.

The files I'm shipping in user-session-units are:

>bash-4.2$ grep . /usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.s*
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.service:[Unit]
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.service:Description=D-Bus System Message Bus
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.service:Requires=dbus.socket
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.service:[Service]
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.service:ExecStart=/usr/bin/dbus-daemon
--session --address=systemd: --nofork --systemd-activation
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.service:ExecReload=/usr/bin/dbus-send
--print-reply --session --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.DBus
/ org.freedesktop.DBus.ReloadConfig
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.socket:[Unit]
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.socket:Description=D-Bus System Message Bus Socket
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.socket:[Socket]
/usr/lib/systemd/user/dbus.socket:ListenStream=%t/dbus/user_bus_socket

You also need a patch for DBus itself to actually make DBus activation
work, but with these 2 files socket activation of DBus will work fine.

>>> Unless systemd --user is actually supposed to work in a non-systemd
>>> environment, and someone actually fixes the problems that make it
>>> entirely non-functional, my patch is the only sane thing to do.
>>
>> this I pertinently disagree with.
>>
>> You have no idea if folks are interested in running systemd --user
>> outside of a system systemd.
>
> This is not about what users want, this is about the status quo. And the
> status quo is that a systemd user instance on a non-systemd system is
> completely non-functional.
>
>> I would even strongly encourage people to
>> do that and make it work, since it allows us to enable systemd user
>> sessions for desktop startup in distributions that don't have proper
>> systemd as system mananger integrated.
>
> You are not listening to me: 'systemd --user' does not work in this
> scenario, but acts as if it would. This is broken behaviour.
>
> As I said multiple times, 'systemctl --user' explicitly refuses to get
> on dbus when sd_booted() returns false (read the code, it is not hard to
> find in there [1]). This means that there is no way to use systemctl to
> control your user instance. What is the point in being able to run it then?

it would start services if they existed?

> All my patch does is match systemd's behaviour to systemctl's behaviour.
> It is about being consistent. It is about not claiming that things work
> which actually don't work.

now you're saying that systemd actually works (to a certain point,
sure), but systemctl is broken? Now I'm really confused...

>> We have a great opportunity to get more folks using systemd and test
>> deployment of user sessions in e.g. gnome/KDE, and instead of tackling
>> the problem this patch ... kills it.
>
> It is already dead. Everyone trying it will simply say "uh, this doesn't
> work at all" and quit.
>
> If you make this work again, you can include patch that reverts this
> one. But leaving it as it is makes no sense at all.

I wish :( still spending my time trying to make bootchart into a mergable patch.

Auke