[systemd-devel] Stricter handling of failing mounts during boot under systemd - crap idea !

[Reindl Harald]

Am 29.06.2015 um 18:50 schrieb jon:
> On Mon, 2015-06-29 at 17:54 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> Am 29.06.2015 um 17:01 schrieb jon:
>>> On Mon, 2015-06-29 at 14:21 +0000, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 06/29/2015 02:08 PM, jon wrote:
>>>>> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#systemd-upgrade-default-init-system
>>>>>
>>>>> I just installed debian 8.1, on the whole my reaction is mixed, one
>>>>> thing however really pisses me off more than any other
>>>>>
>>>>> "5.6.1. Stricter handling of failing mounts during boot under systemd"
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not "Stricter" it is a change in default behaviour.
>>>>>
>>>>> This change is a shit idea, who do I shout at to get the behaviour
>>>>> modified to back to sensible ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The systemd community only recommends what downstream consumers of it
>>>> should do but does not dictate or othewise decided anything how those
>>>> consumers eventually decide to implement systemd so if you dont like how
>>>> systemd is implemented in Debian you should voice your concerns with the
>>>> Debian community.
>>> Ok
>>>
>>> Who writes/maintains the code that parses "nofail" in /etc/fstab ?
>>> Who writes/maintains the typical system boot code (whatever has replaced
>>> rc.sysinit) ?
>>>
>>> I suspect the answer to both is the systemd maintainers, in which case
>>> is this not the correct place to bitch about it?
>>
>> i don't get what is there to "bitch about" at all
>>
>> you have a mountpoint in /etc/fstab and don't care if it don't get
>> mounted at boot and instead data get written into the folder instead the
>> correct filesystem?
> You are making assumptions !

no

> Not everyone uses linux in the same way. I have a number of servers that
> are RAID, but others I maintain have backup disks instead.

and?

> The logic with backup disks is that the volumes are formatted and
> installed, then a backup is taken. The backup disk is then removed from
> the server and replaced only for backups.
>
> This machine for example is a gen8 HP microserver, it has 4 removable
> (non hotswap) disks.
> /etc/fstab
> LABEL=volpr     /disks/volpr            ext4            defaults        0       0
> LABEL=volprbak  /disks/volprbak         ext4            defaults 	0       0
> LABEL=volpo     /disks/volpo            ext4            defaults        0       0
> LABEL=volpobak  /disks/volpobak         ext4            defaults	0       0
>
> At install it looks like this, but after the machine is populated the
> two "bak" volumes are removed. I want (and expect) them to be mounted
> again when replaced, but they spend most of the month in a desk draw.
>
> It is a perfectly valid way of working, does not causes disruption like
> making and breaking mirror pairs - and most importantly has been the way
> I have worked for 10 plus years !
>
> I have also built numerous embedded devices that have speculative fstab
> entries for volumes that are only present sometimes, In the factory for
> example.

and why don't you just add "nofail"
it's way shorter then write a ton of emails

>> normally that is not what somebody expects and if that is the desired
>> behavior for you just say that to your operating system and add "nofail"
> This was, and most importantly IS, the behaviour I expect.

what about change yor expectations?
there are way bigger changes than the need to be specific in configs

> To get this in perspective I am not complaining about the idea of not
> going into admin if an FS is missing, it just should not BREAK the
> previous behaviour by being the default

why?

> The default for the past N years has been to continue to boot if the FS
> is missing, that should STILL be the default.

why?

> The flag "nofail" logic is the wrong way up.  An option should have been
> added to indicate that the presence of a given FS is expected and
> failure to mount should crash out to admin, the install tools should
> then have been modified to add this option to fstab rather than changing
> the default behaviour.

nonsense, the "nofail" was *not* invented by systemd, it existed in fact 
long before systemd


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