[systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] Re: Using timedatectl on a readonly rootfile system using mender

[Ulrich Windl]

>>> Shravan Singh <shravan at bluesparq.com> schrieb am 05.09.2020 um 00:26 in
Nachricht
<CABjzrPR=7mwZFwmz6OVeGVi+3GJC24dcxos4gK_SK-kxD91XhQ at mail.gmail.com>:
> And this is a major problem for any one running raspberry pi, NXP or any
> other embedded processor that uses mender and embedded linux.

Maybe an embedded OS really should use UTC as timezone.

> A machine with embedded linux running on it goes to San Francisco and then
> transported to Chicago.
> And you are saying that we shouldn't be allowed to change the timezone?

The question is : Who will "see" the timezone? Does every process run with the same timezone?

> Just because you are not "convinced"
> Does this group have a poll system? Let's put this to poll and see?

I wonder: If you have a working pull request, why don't you use that code and be happy with it? That's how free software works.
Still everybody interested can apply you patch.
> 
> I have tried having a rational explanation with you but your attitude is
> just appalling
> 
> I have tried this solution and it works
> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/8277.
> I just don't understand why you are not willing to accept this. And provide
> a solution to all the people using raspberry pi and or embedded processors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Shravan Singh
> (239) 243-0838
> 
> Blue Sparq, Inc.
> 928 NE 24th Lane unit 4 and 5.
> Cape Coral, FL 33993
> 
> IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential.
> They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you have received
> this email by mistake, please notify the sender immediately and do not
> disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM Shravan Singh <shravan at bluesparq.com> wrote:
> 
>> What constitutes a configuration?
>> And please read my email subject. I can't have writable /etc, mender
>> dosen't allow that.
>>
>> In today's mobile computing age you really think users shouldn't change
>> timezone?
>> You keep saying " I for one am certainly not convinced that the timezones"
>> but you don't explain why?
>> Are you looking at this system as a static machine? That can never change
>> timezone?
>>
>> And please don't use profanity. I have not and you shouldn't either.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Shravan Singh
>> (239) 243-0838
>>
>> Blue Sparq, Inc.
>> 928 NE 24th Lane unit 4 and 5.
>> Cape Coral, FL 33993
>>
>> IMPORTANT: The contents of this email and any attachments are
>> confidential. They are intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you
>> have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender immediately
>> and do not disclose the contents to anyone or make copies thereof.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 6:05 PM Lennart Poettering <lennart at poettering.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fr, 04.09.20 15:54, Shravan Singh (shravan at bluesparq.com) wrote:
>>>
>>> > Yes, But help me understand.
>>> > I think you said that you are not convinced as to why that has to done.
>>> >
>>> > My argument is very simple shouldn't a Linux environment allow change in
>>> > timezone easily?
>>>
>>> Oh we do. But if your want configuration to be changable, then mount
>>> /etc writable.
>>>
>>> You have two contradicting goals: you want immutable config, but then
>>> you want to change config. So how's that gonna work?
>>>
>>> If you want your persistent config changable then make it changable,
>>> i.e. mount /etc/ writable.
>>>
>>> > Now I am not an expert in Linux kernel development. But I see that some
>>> of
>>> > the files, even though they reside in /etc  are linked to file in /run
>>> > Like *resolv.conf.  *Which allows dynamic changes.
>>>
>>> I explained this already. DNS server data today is much less config
>>> than state, acquired dynamically via DHCP, hence most distros don#t
>>> configure it in /etc so much anymore, but manage it in /run (where
>>> transient state is generally kept), and only keep a compat symlink in
>>> /etc. If you try to convince people though that the local timezone
>>> should just be transient state and not persistent config you'll have a
>>> hard time. I for one am certainly not convinced that the timezones are
>>> state...
>>>
>>> I mean, the line between persistent configuration and transient state
>>> is blurry, but in the case of DNS settings and timezone settings I
>>> certainly can draw a line easily.
>>>
>>> > timezone activity change is a very basic change one that needs to be
>>> > supported by the system. Why guard it with so much.
>>>
>>> We don't do that. Just make /etc/ writable ffs, if you want stuff in
>>> /etc to be changable.
>>>
>>> Lennart
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lennart Poettering, Berlin
>>>
>>