[systemd-devel] Antw: [EXT] Dropping split-usr/unmerged-usr support

[Luca Boccassi]

On Fri, 2022-04-08 at 10:33 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> On Thu, 2022-04-07 at 10:39 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > On Wed, 2022-04-06 at 08:39 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 8:07 AM Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, 2022-04-06 at 06:51 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 6:45 AM Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Wed, 2022-04-06 at 08:05 +0200, Ulrich Windl wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi at gmail.com> schrieb am 05.04.2022
> > > > > > > > > > um 22:07 in
> > > > > > > Nachricht <05cf10d04274dcbff07fed88e98dca2eebb24b7d.camel at gmail.com>:
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > As part of our spring cleaning effort, we are considering when to
> > > > > > > > drop
> > > > > > > > support for split/unmerged-usr filesystem layouts.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > A build-time warning was added last year:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/9afd5e7b975e8051c011ff9c07c95e80bd
> > > > > > > > 954469
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Honestly to me the requirement that /usr be part of the root
> > > > > > > filesystem never had a reasonable argument.
> > > > > > > Instead I think systemd quit the concept of a simple scaled-down
> > > > > > > subset to bring up the system.
> > > > > > > Also with initrd/dracut the concept is even more odd, because the
> > > > > > > /usr found there is just some arbitrary subset of the real /usr
> > > > > > > (similar for other filesystems).
> > > > > > > So why couldn't that work with a really scaled-down /sbin?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > We are now adding a runtime taint as well.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Which distributions are left running with systemd on a
> > > > > > > > split/unmerged-
> > > > > > > > usr system?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > (reminder: we refer to a system that boots without a populated /usr
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > split-usr, and a system where bin, sbin and lib* are not symlinks
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > their counterparts under /usr as unmerged-usr)
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Symlinking /sbin or /usr/sbin binaries to /usr is also a bad concept
> > > > > > > IMHO.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > It seems systemd is the new Microsoft ("We know what is good for you;
> > > > > > > just accept it!") ;-)
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Ulrich
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sorry, but you are about ~10 years late to this debate :-) The question
> > > > > > today is not whether it's good or bad, but who's left to do the switch.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > We know Fedora/RHEL/CentOS/SUSE/Arch/Ubuntu have done the switch, and
> > > > > > presumably any of their derivatives.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > We know Debian is, er, working on it, as per the most recent article on
> > > > > > LWN.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Debian is expected to complete this with Debian 12, I believe.
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah it's, uhm, complicated :-) Working on it...
> > > > 
> > > > > > What about other distros that are not derivatives of the aboves and
> > > > > > that use systemd? Does anybody have any insight?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > OpenMandriva and Yocto both haven't done the switch yet, as far as I'm
> > > > > aware. Might be worth reaching out to them and finding out when
> > > > > they're going to do it.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks, I'm not familiar with OpenMandriva at all, is anyone here? Any
> > > > pointers on where to reach out to?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > You could try filing an issue here:
> > > https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution
> > > 
> > > Alternatively, I believe Bernhard Rosenkraenzer (berolinux on GitHub)
> > > is someone to reach out to. He does a lot of OpenMandriva
> > > architectural work.
> > 
> > Thank you, opened an issue:
> > 
> > https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution/issues/2792
> 
> Good news, the migration to usr-merged is scheduled for OpenMandriva
> 5.0:
> 
> https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution/issues/2792#issuecomment-1092605536

Final update, the changes have been merged so OpenMandriva 5.0 will be
both usr-merged and sbin-merged when it's released:

https://github.com/OpenMandrivaAssociation/distribution/issues/2792

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 833 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/attachments/20220707/0cb79bef/attachment.sig>