Please Don't Use Cleint Side Window Decorations

Graham Cantin kamilion at
Wed Nov 17 03:02:44 PST 2010

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:28 AM, microcai <microcai at> wrote:
> I guess  wayland just  *do not* want to render *anything*. Just composite
> composite composite composite composite composite composite
> 2010/11/16 Fabian Henze <flyser42 at>
>> On Tuesday, 16 Nov 2010, 01:22:42-UTC, Dana Jansens wrote:
>> > I think it is important to point out that this conversation has been
>> > predicated entirely on the idea that window decorations and window
>> > managers are the same thing.
>> >
>> > Window management is - at its core - a filter for focus and window
>> > manipulation requests.  It does not require that the WM also draw the
>> > window decorations.  A window can initiate an move/resize just as well
>> > as the WM itself can, via a request to the WM.

It seems to be so, microcai. And it's a good design.

Reading the following message was important to establish context for
me on where in the stack "Wayland" fits.
Originally posted under the benchmark thread, but I think it applies
here as well:

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 1:23 AM, Chris Wilson <chris at> wrote:
> Take a step back. It's time to review the system architecture once more.
> Wayland is a input/output [de-]multiplexer. It does no rendering on the
> behalf of the client, only compositing the many clients onto the scanouts.
> The clients must prepare for themselves the shared memory buffers that
> they pass to Wayland for compositing. (Under GEM those shared memory
> buffers are merely GEM objects and therefore can also be used with
> hardware accelerated rendering.)
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:20:29 +0800, Justin Lee <justinlee5455 at> wrote:
> > Yep, I guess cairo-gl used by Wayland should get similar performance
> > boosts as cairo-drm if it's also direct-rendered (by mesa-dri?). It
> > seems that mixing 2D drawings with 3D drawings makes problems,
> > therefore we want to draw everything by OpenGL even if for 2D
> > graphics. Maybe that's the purpose of cairo-gl i.e. being a wrapper
> > library which use OpenGL to draw 2D graphics.
> The difference between theory and practice...
> To put it bluntly, cairo-gl on my fastest boxes [g45, ironlake] is still
> slower than cairo-xlib on one of my slowest boxes [q35, for pnv it's
> close but the Atom is just no match for the CPUs in the desktop boxes].
> This is all due to driver quality and the fact that RENDER is much easier
> to accelerate than a full GL implementation. This also implies that there
> is less opportunity for acceleration of RENDER because so much information
> is thrown away upfront. (Having said that cairo-xlib on g45/ilk is
> atrocious and much slower than cairo-gl on the same platforms, again due
> to driver quality.)
> The promise of GL is that we only need to write one good driver per
> chipset...
> The promise of Wayland is that every pixel is perfect. It takes the
> architecture that X has organically developed over the last 25 years and
> aims to implement that in a small footprint, low latency system.
> One of the killer ideas of Wayland is that it is self-hosting.
> -Chris
> --
> Chris Wilson, Intel Open Source Technology Centre

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