Introduction and toolkit abstraction

Lars Hallberg spam at
Wed Sep 1 18:05:05 EEST 2004

Philippe Fremy wrote:

>>I belewe XUL pointing the way for god toolkit abstraktion.
>XUL is certainly a good solution for the developers willing to code in XUL. 
>Now, what about all the applications that are _not_ coded with XUL.

Whell, the developers can chose betwin:

1) Writing a nitive gnome app.

2) Writing a native kde app.

3) Writing a cross desktop app with some tolkit abstraktion kit 
(wxWidget, XUL, whatever).

You semams to wanna keep the benifits of 1 and 2 and still get the 
benefits of 3. Think that is a bit wishfull.

>What is proposed is for these existing applications (KDevelop, Gnome 
>Meeting, OpenOffice, Mozilla, Evolution, Quanta, ...) to look consistent to 
>the user.
>I think we can achieve that in less that one year and it would benefit every 
>KDE and Gnome application available. 
I'm not that optimistic. Folowing this thred, it's seems prety clear 
that making a gnome app coded for nativ gnome dialogs, using kde dialogs 
insted without changing the app in a major way is hard. The same holds 
for making a native kde app using gnome dialogs.

Hovewer, hacking gnome and kde dialogs so they suport etchothers featurs 
is alreddy progressing. But the 'feel' will still be diferent.

Defining a common api for comon dialogs (including the needs of rox), 
hack both kde and gnome dialogs to suport that, provide a vay to call 
this 'standar dialogs' that will use wathever environment that is 
runing, change apps that want to have better cross desktop suport to use 
that api. That might work and is usefull. Will be usefull for desktop 
abstrakton tolkit too! Then we can hope for both kde and gnome to 
deprivate ther native api:s  :-)

If whe whant a cross desktop api suport extension to the dialog boxes, i 
think we do not get away with less then somthing 'xul-like'.

And, Yes, tolkit abstraktion tolkit is lagging. They realy don't need to 
be that much lagging, as they can track development versions. Apps is 
usaly lagging to, apps using a good tolkit abstraktion might merge to a 
new version of the underlying toolkit withot change - so ther is 
benefits to!

GTK alredy got libglade for importing the gui from XML, In the long run 
I'm hoping for both kde, gnome and whoever futer environment to nativly 
suport an 'standard' XUL and an standard dom api to interact with the ui 
solving the lag asociated with desktop abstraction, and make apps 
'upgrade' instantly. But thats prety distant. But I do realy think we 
have to live with ether lagging toolkit abstraktion or nonintegrated 
apps to that day comes.

I'm pretty pesimistik about making apps apare more cross desktop 
*without* making the apps themself more cross desktop. Most that can be 
done ther is done (drag n drop etc). gnome and kde is simply to 
different for just substituting parts of on for parts of the other 
without seriusly hacking the apps themself.

But lets hope I'm wrong :-)


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