Fwd: Re: tigert's mockups and HTML

Tuomas Kuosmanen tigert at novell.com
Thu Sep 23 17:00:40 EEST 2004

On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 02:30 -0500, Shaun McCance wrote:
> Besides that, the last thing we need is some yahoo developers (you know,
> the kind that skin their apps) breaking the whole accessibility stack by
> setting all sorts of weird colors and crap, "because it looks good".
> You want *good* design?  Let's face it.  A lot of developers couldn't
> design their way out of a paper bag.  We don't make developers reinvent
> the look of buttons and menu items.  Because they'll usually do a crappy
> job of it.  They create a button with the appropriate function in the
> toolkit they're using.  And then it looks like every other button in
> every other application.  And it works.
> Good design comes from developers (authors, content creators, etc.)
> specifying the structure of things (which they're really quite good at),
> and real designers (like you) saying how that structure should look.

Yeah. What I am suggesting now is something that enables people like me
to design stuff. A "toolkit". Not a styleguide. This spec is about the
technical building blocks for notifications. I just want to make sure
the building blocks are powerful enough.

What we eventually want is stylesheets and a styleguide as of what CSS
classes etc to use to make the notifications look good. That is what the
developers would use.

Just like how Gnome HIG shows how to make a good looking UI with GTK. 
You can do horrible stuff with GTK as well. But when there is the HIG,
it is easy for developers to use a consistent style so all Gnome apps
look consistent.

> HTML isn't even a very good document markup language, and it certainly
> isn't easy to implement well.  HTMl wasn't very good at marking up web
> pages, and it was even worse at marking up email.  I really doubt it
> would somehow manage to prove itself in simple notification messages.

HTML still is used widely and more or less works. It might not be
academically beautiful, but it gets the job done. You suggest we create
yet another markup system? 

One of the good things with HTML is that it is familiar for us designer
guys, so we can do our part of making the notifications look good. It
sounds silly to come up with yet another markup language to learn just
for this. And to me it sounds good that we could have CSS to separate
the actual content of the message from the representation.

I mean, if the look of the notification would come from a stylesheet and
the whole thing would be rendered by Gecko or such, we could just create
alternative stylesheet for accessibility needs - like high contrast and
large font etc (and just for different "normal" themes too) - this
sounds like a good thing to me.


Tuomas Kuosmanen <tigert at novell.com>

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