New `MimeType` fields in .desktop

[Jehan Pagès]

Hello!

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 6:46 PM Thomas Kluyver <thomas at kluyver.me.uk> wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2021, at 16:42, Jehan Pagès wrote:
>
> Yes! Finally someone who reads emails before answering. :-)
>
>
> I'll just note that this isn't a particularly useful tone in a discussion
> that already feels heated. I actually haven't read your emails particularly
> closely, I just think I've happened to pick up your general idea. ;-)
>

Yes. I'm sorry. I must admit I was a bit frustrated by the original
exchanges and should not have let the steam go. So I apologize John. 🙇

>
> It's an interesting idea, but wouldn't it be very hard to tell? Like if
> someone asked me how much of PSD is supported on GIMP (on a scale, say from
> 0 to 10), I would have no idea where we stand. We do have support, and we
> try to improve it regularly. We also accept patches with arms wide open.
> But how much of it is supported? No idea.
>
>
> I'm not suggesting it would represent exactly how well a format is
> supported. You'd map rough semantic guidelines onto numbers (e.g.
> 100=designed for this file format, 30=can import but not save, 10=can
> extract partial information). Strict categories always get awkward, putting
> them on a scale allows you to be a bit fuzzy about it.
>
> But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Let's discuss problems before
> solutions.
>
> Yeah the default application on same level of intent is a difficult
> question, which was why I was not really focusing on it. I'm not sure but
> it doesn't look like all distributions/desktop do the same thing currently.
> It would seem that some at least would just set the last installed software
> as default. This is definitely wrong often, but I can see also how it can
> make sense to some. I don't actually think there is a single right answer
> to this problem unfortunately.
>
>
> Do you have any idea which distro/desktop prefers the last installed
> application? Maybe a better starting point is to work out what (if
> anything) does that, and if it's intentional.
>

Apparently something called EndeavourOS (this was what used the person who
reported recently reported). But I'm pretty sure that I had similar issues
too by the past (been using Fedora for a few years now, so probably on it).
I just never thought too much of it until now, because I would just
customize the default app and be done with it.

In any case, since there is currently no semantics on file
formats/application association, wouldn't it just happen commonly? We just
don't pay attention to it when we know well how to edit the default
associations anyway. Also we don't install applications all the time… well
at least I don't (just once in a while, I would install something new for
some new usage I have hence often not much overlapping with other software
anyway).


> I think the problem needs to be pinned down more precisely before we can
> consider any solution. You've presented some mysterious GIMP users. What
> desktops were they using? What distros? Were they new to desktop Linux, or
> old hands with established preferences? How often does this come up, and is
> it increasing or decreasing?
>

I do agree it's not so much to start with. Anyway here is the recent
report: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/6449

But really it's more than just this user which made me come up with this
idea (I'm not **that** dedicated to every bug reporter! 😛). I mean, yeah
it triggered the thinking, but in the end, that's because I re-read the
desktop format spec and thought it had some obvious (to me at least)
weaknesses regarding the mime type association. I also remembered that I
had the issue once or twice, never thinking much about it until today
(which doesn't mean there is no issue, only that it's easy to work around
when you know your way on your desktop).

I'm not saying it's a huge priority or anything or that it's a
deal-breaker. Just… would be nice to improve. 🙂


> Changing a specification and getting everyone involved to adopt the
> changes is a long, difficult process.
>

I know. I've even contributed to some IETF RFCs by the past. I'm not
looking for a change tomorrow. 😉


> If there's any chance the problem can be solved (or sufficiently
> mitigated) by changing software without changing the desktop file spec,
> it's worth trying that first.
>

Of course, though I don't think that it's the right idea. If each
desktop/distribution out there uses a different algorithm to process the
desktop files, then it's an endless task (where you have to discuss the
same discussion over and over with different developers). On the other
hand, if it's in the spec with some fields and some recommendation on
usage, then it can just be considered an improvement/bug when updating the
standard.

The other alternative you proposed (extending the shared-mime-info
database) is obviously an interesting one. More interesting than looking up
code of every distribution which processes desktop files, because at least
it's shared work and finally spec-alike. Yet it feels that it would be much
less work to just have application developers tell what type of file format
association they provide. It could be done in a few lines in the desktop
file by various software devs out there and would just be usable everywhere.

Jehan


>
> Best wishes,
> Thomas
>


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