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p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>I'd agree with Will: keep things simple unless there's real pressure from people who want to use localised icons, not just hypothetical cases. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Best wishes,<br></div><div>Thomas<br></div><div><br></div><div>On Tue, Jun 25, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Bollinger, John C wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div class="qt-WordSection1"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Hi,</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">The problem seems to be that Icon is unique among the currently-defined keys in that it identifies a _machine-actionable_ datum that may conceivably want / need
to differ between locales. It should not be translated because it’s not intended for human readers, but it should be customizable on a per-locale basis. For example, it would probably be appropriate for a “fix it” icon depicted in Western European locales
as a red cross to be depicted in middle eastern locales as a red crescent.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Whereas I concur that such cases are at best rare in practice, I suggest that if a change is to be made at all then the alternative of creating a new value type
should at least be considered. That would permit the locale-customizability to be retained while clarifying the intended use and distinguishing such items from those that should routinely be translated.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Regards,</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">John</span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br></p><div><div style="border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-left-color:currentcolor;border-left-style:none;border-left-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-style:solid;border-top-width:1pt;padding-top:3pt;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size">From:</span></span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> xdg [mailto:xdg-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Will Thompson<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 24, 2019 5:06 PM<br> <b>To:</b> xdg@lists.freedesktop.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Reclassify Icon= in .desktop files as string, not localestring</span></span></p></div></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><p style="line-height: 12pt; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: scroll; background-image: none; background-size: auto; background-origin: padding-box; background-clip: border-box;" class="qt-MsoNormal"><span style="background-color:white" class="highlight"><b><span style="color:rgb(193, 15, 58)" class="colour"><span style="font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:10pt" class="size">Caution: External Sender</span></span></span></b></span><br></p><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Hi,<br></p><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Currently, Icon= and similar fields in .desktop files are defined to be "localestring", and are extracted for translation by tools like xgettext. I propose to redefine them to "string" <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgitlab.freedesktop.org%2Fxdg%2Fxdg-specs%2Fmerge_requests%2F2&data=01%7C01%7CJohn.Bollinger%40stjude.org%7C8abdeafc250043b65f6d08d6f8f02d66%7C22340fa892264871b677d3b3e377af72%7C0&sdata=8LwCUiY37LU9BYzXCrmcGwcUUvVKMieCS79hi39yO00%3D&reserved=0">https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xdg/xdg-specs/merge_requests/2</a> and
stop xgettext extracting them. <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsavannah.gnu.org%2Fbugs%2Findex.php%3F56543&data=01%7C01%7CJohn.Bollinger%40stjude.org%7C8abdeafc250043b65f6d08d6f8f02d66%7C22340fa892264871b677d3b3e377af72%7C0&sdata=s27GFtsB%2B4tdqWRcj9apJpempzlBjzTmBQfzhfMtVuM%3D&reserved=0">https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/index.php?56543</a><br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">I did some cursory archaeology and the only discussion I can find around icons being translatable is this message <a href="https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.freedesktop.org%2Farchives%2Fxdg%2F2005-June%2F005364.html&data=01%7C01%7CJohn.Bollinger%40stjude.org%7C8abdeafc250043b65f6d08d6f8f02d66%7C22340fa892264871b677d3b3e377af72%7C0&sdata=hJHmTK8DbuIuvZ4Cxv7JRu2tizarX9Ka3aQfQ9R9Fac%3D&reserved=0">https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2005-June/005364.html</a> and
its descendents. The argument given there is:<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><blockquote style="border-top-color:currentcolor;border-top-style:none;border-top-width:medium;border-right-color:currentcolor;border-right-style:none;border-right-width:medium;border-bottom-color:currentcolor;border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:medium;border-image-outset:0;border-image-repeat:stretch;border-image-slice:100%;border-image-source:none;border-image-width:1;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-style:solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding-top:0in;padding-right:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;"><p class="qt-MsoNormal">I think Icon is intentionally a localestring - you might imagine an icon having some text or a cultural reference. I don't think it would be a good idea to have an icon like that and I haven't seen a localized Icon key in practice but ...<br></p></blockquote><div><div><div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">I agree with everything here – technically, it's correct to make them localizable, even if I have never noticed a localised icon. (That said, English is my first and only language, and I live in the UK…)<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">On the other hand, I have seen translators trying hard to translate icon names, which are often strange collections of kebab-case-words or com.example.reverse_domain.Words. I've seen many comments of the form "# TRANSLATORS: please do not
translate this".<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Is there widespread use of localized icons that I'm not aware of? If so, perhaps the right path is to add a flag to xgettext to opt in (or opt out) of this behaviour; this might not be an easy sell since the specification is clear that
these are localestrings. If not, could we consider this a case where the practical cost (in the form of wasted work for translators) outweighs the conceptual upside, and change the spec (and implementation)?<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">Thanks,<br></p></div><div><p class="qt-MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><p class="qt-MsoNormal">– Will<br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><hr><span style="font-family:Arial" class="font"><span style="font-size:13px" class="size"><br>Email Disclaimer: www.stjude.org/emaildisclaimer<br> Consultation Disclaimer: www.stjude.org/consultationdisclaimer<br> </span></span> </div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>xdg mailing list<br></div><div>xdg@lists.freedesktop.org<br></div><div>https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></body></html>