<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">To dictate how apps behave? Of course not. However, if the XDG specs are going to be fundamental to FOSS standardization, incompatibilities such as these with the major proprietary systems should certainly be documented and communicated.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Many developers try to keep keymapping consistent across systems, because they want users to be able to move between the systems of their choice without relearning the same applications. There’s nothing a person can do, however, about the shift from “ctrl+<>” to “super+<>” when you move to Mac, and there’s nothing a person can do about the super key’s relationship with core Windows functions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If we want people developing for *nix to avoid meta/super for applications, and to prefer it for DEs, then the proverbial Everybody needs to know 1) they can’t ever use super on Windows, and 2) they must “always” use super on Mac.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is the sort of thing that makes sense as a note at the bottom of the relevant spec, I reckon. After all, atypically - and with my support, don’t mistake me! - it’s the Linux side which is formalizing an incompatibility.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Cassidy James Blaede <<a href="mailto:cassidy@elementary.io" class="">cassidy@elementary.io</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">It is not FD.o's responsibility to dictate how apps behave on macOS. macOS is not an FD.o platform. If an app is attempting to target FD.o platforms and macOS, they obviously need to make changes dependent on the target platform—but that's outside of FD.o.<br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 4:31 PM Nate Graham <<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" class="">nate@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, I suppose every application shortcut that uses Ctrl should replace <br class=""> it with Command when run on macOS. Back when I was a Mac guy, apps which <br class=""> didn't do this were very annoying. Seems like a reasonable thing to add <br class=""> to the spec.<br class=""> <br class=""> Nate<br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> <br class=""> On 6/8/20 4:23 PM, Sparr wrote:<br class=""> > This spec does not just apply to whole desktop environments. It claims <br class=""> > to apply to applications as well. I am calling out applications that run <br class=""> > both in FOSS desktop environments AND in other environments.<br class=""> > <br class=""> > GIMP is one such example. Until recently, GIMP used the same set of <br class=""> > libraries to build for Mac and Linux, and the same shortcuts (unless the <br class=""> > user changed them). For example, it used ctrl+c for "copy" on both OSes. <br class=""> > However, since it has gained the ability to run natively on macOS, <br class=""> > instead of through an X11 server, the default shortcuts have been <br class=""> > changed such that they are ctrl+c on non-mac OSes and command/super+c on <br class=""> > mac.<br class=""> > <br class=""> > I don't think this is a serious issue, but it's still relevant to the <br class=""> > development of cross-platform applications like that.<br class=""> > <br class=""> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:14 PM Nate Graham <<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank" class="">nate@kde.org</a> <br class=""> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank" class="">nate@kde.org</a>>> wrote:<br class=""> > <br class=""> > I'm not sure it's relevant. This spec is for FOSS desktop environments.<br class=""> > Typically you aren't going to be installing Plasma or GNOME on a Mac on<br class=""> > top of macOS. You might wipe macOS and install a FOSS OS, in which case<br class=""> > the spec fully applies with no issues.<br class=""> > <br class=""> > Nate<br class=""> > <br class=""> > <br class=""> > <br class=""> > On 6/8/20 4:11 PM, Sparr wrote:<br class=""> > > I think it's worth calling out, although I suspect most of us are<br class=""> > > already aware, that in macOS most applications use the<br class=""> > command/super key<br class=""> > > for shortcuts that would use ctrl in other OSes, while still also<br class=""> > using<br class=""> > > ctrl and option/alt as application modifier keys as well.<br class=""> > ><br class=""> > > I do not expect cross-platform apps to change their behavior on<br class=""> > macOS as<br class=""> > > a result of this standard, even if they are otherwise compliant.<br class=""> > ><br class=""> > > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 5:37 PM Nate Graham <<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank" class="">nate@kde.org</a><br class=""> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank" class="">nate@kde.org</a>><br class=""> > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank" class="">nate@kde.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nate@kde.org" target="_blank" class="">nate@kde.org</a>>>> wrote:<br class=""> > ><br class=""> > > On 5/6/20 6:05 PM, Noah Davis wrote:<br class=""> > > > Start key == Windows key. Maybe I didn't use the right<br class=""> > name, but I've<br class=""> > > > always called it the Start key since it opens the start<br class=""> > menu. It's<br class=""> > > > called Meta in Qt and Super in GTK.<br class=""> > ><br class=""> > > ...And if you're using a Mac keyboard, the command key (the<br class=""> > one with<br class=""> > > the<br class=""> > > cloverleaf symbol on it) maps to<br class=""> > Meta/Super/Win/Start/whatever we're<br class=""> > > calling it. :)<br class=""> > ><br class=""> > > +1 for the original proposal. Since GNOME is already doing this,<br class=""> > > perhaps<br class=""> > > we could make a formal XDG spec recommending it. Seems pretty<br class=""> > > logical to me.<br class=""> > ><br class=""> > > Nate<br class=""> > > _______________________________________________<br class=""> > > xdg mailing list<br class=""> > > <a href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" class="">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" class="">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a>><br class=""> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" class="">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" class="">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a>>><br class=""> > > <a href="https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg</a><br class=""> > ><br class=""> > <br class=""> <br class=""> _______________________________________________<br class=""> xdg mailing list<br class=""> <a href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" class="">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br class=""> <a href="https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg</a><br class=""> </blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br class="">xdg mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:xdg@lists.freedesktop.org" class="">xdg@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br class="">https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>