<div dir="ltr">I missed out a link in an earlier email, this is the dbus player control which I mentioned: <a href="https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/mpris-spec/">https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/mpris-spec/</a> <div><br></div><div><br></div><div>A dbus <---> OSC endpoint could actually make this super useful, perhaps I will do that when I have some time,</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 at 21:57, salsaman <<a href="mailto:salsaman@gmail.com">salsaman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Just to re emphasise, the nearest we have presently are AV_PIXFMT_* which are library specific values, and lack some important values<div>(there is no yuv888 packed for example), And the drm,h file is based on monitor standards, and also lacks values like 'R', 'G', 'B', 'A' *</div><div><br></div><div>I think we can agree there is a gap that could be filled by an agreed set of definitions. I dont mean technical definitions, we can just point to the standards</div><div> e.g <a href="https://glenwing.github.io/docs/ITU-R-BT.709-1.pdf" target="_blank">https://glenwing.github.io/docs/ITU-R-BT.709-1.pdf</a> </div><div>and an enumeration XDG_VIDEO_GAMMA_BT709 (== XDG_VIDEO_GAMMA_ITU709)</div><div><br></div><div>G,</div><div><br></div><div>* (also I would dispute their ambiguous yuv411 definition - if it were yuv411p I would agree, otherwise it could be the camera format UYYVYY packed).</div><div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 at 18:40, salsaman <<a href="mailto:salsaman@gmail.com" target="_blank">salsaman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I'll try to explain the rationale a bit. In the audio world it is quite common for apps to send audio from one to another. Generally speaking they would send or receive via an audio server, e.g pulseaudio, jack.<div>Now imagine the same for video, let us suppose you have an app that generates video effects from audio. Now you want to send the output to another app, let's say you have a super optimised openGL video player.</div><div>You could imagine connecting the 2 apps via dbus for example. The first app, the generator, sends a frame sync signal each time a frame is produced, and includes a pointer to the frame buffer, and the frame size.</div><div>But how does it describe the format of the frame pixel data ? Is it RGB24 ? yuv420p ? if it is rgb, is it sRGB gamma or linear ?</div><div>Well, you could maybe guess the first 4 bytes are a fourcc code. Then you write a lot of code to parse the 4cc and figure out what it might be,</div><div>Or the easier way, you query the app and it responds with XDG constants.</div><div><br></div><div>G,</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 at 17:13, salsaman <<a href="mailto:salsaman@gmail.com" target="_blank">salsaman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi,<div>the problem with the drm.h header is, it is complicated, still needs interpretation, and it lacks some commonly used formats, (e.g YUVA4444p)</div><div>Also it doesn't address the gamma value (linear, sRGB, bt701), or the yuv subspace, (eg Y'CbCr vs bt701), the yuv ramge (16 - 240. 16 - 235 = clamped / mpeg. 0 - 255 unclamped, full, jpeg range) or uv sampling position, e.g center, top_left)</div><div><br></div><div>I can see that having some common definitions would be useful for exchanging data between applications. Eg my app gets a frame buffer and metadata XDG_VIDEO_PALETTE_RGB24, XDG_VIDEO_GAMMA_LINEAR</div><div>then I know unambiguously that this is planar RGB 8:8:8 (so forget little / big endian) and that the values are encoded with linear (not sRGB) gamma.</div><div><br></div><div>If you want to be more specific with palettes, then you could do so, but it might require defining metadata structs,</div><div><br></div><div>For example for my own standard (Weed effects) I have:</div><div><br></div><div>// max number of channels in a palette <br>#ifndef WEED_MAXPCHANS<br>#define WEED_MAXPCHANS 8<br>#endif<br><br>// max number of planes in a palette <br>#ifndef WEED_MAXPPLANES<br>#define WEED_MAXPPLANES 4<br>#endif<br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_end 0<br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_red 1<br>#define WEED_VCHAN_green 2<br>#define WEED_VCHAN_blue 3<br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_Y 512<br>#define WEED_VCHAN_U 513<br>#define WEED_VCHAN_V 514<br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_alpha 1024<br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_FIRST_CUSTOM 8192<br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_DESC_PLANAR (1 << 0) ///< planar type <br>#define WEED_VCHAN_DESC_FP (1 << 1) ///< floating point type <br>#define WEED_VCHAN_DESC_BE (1 << 2) ///< pixel data is big endian (within each component) <br><br>#define WEED_VCHAN_DESC_FIRST_CUSTOM (1 << 16)<br><br>typedef struct {<br> uint16_t ext_ref; ///< link to an enumerated type <br> uint16_t chantype[WEED_MAXPCHANS]; /// e.g. {WEED_VCHAN_U, WEED_VCHAN_Y, WEED_VCHAN_V, WEED_VCHAN_Y) <br> uint32_t flags; /// bitmap of flags, eg. WEED_VCHAN_DESC_FP | WEED_VCHAN_DESC_PLANAR <br> uint8_t hsub[WEED_MAXPCHANS]; /// horiz. subsampling, 0 or 1 means no subsampling, 2 means halved etc. (planar only) </div><div> uint8_t vsub[WEED_MAXPCHANS]; /// vert subsampling <br></div> uint8_t npixels; ///< npixels per macropixel: {0, 1} == 1 <br> uint8_t bitsize[WEED_MAXPCHANS]; // 8 if not specified<br> void *extended; ///< pointer to app defined data <br>} weed_macropixel_t;<br><div><br></div><div>Then I can describe all my palettes like:</div><div>advp[0] = (weed_macropixel_t) {<br> WEED_PALETTE_RGB24,<br> {WEED_VCHAN_red, WEED_VCHAN_green, WEED_VCHAN_blue}<br> };<br><br></div><div> advp[6] = (weed_macropixel_t) {<br> WEED_PALETTE_RGBAFLOAT,<br> {WEED_VCHAN_red, WEED_VCHAN_green, WEED_VCHAN_blue, WEED_VCHAN_alpha},<br> WEED_VCHAN_DESC_FP, {0}, {0}, 1, {32, 32, 32, 32}<br> };<br><br></div><div> advp[7] = (weed_macropixel_t) {<br> WEED_PALETTE_YUV420P,<br> {WEED_VCHAN_Y, WEED_VCHAN_U, WEED_VCHAN_V},<br> WEED_VCHAN_DESC_PLANAR, {1, 2, 2}, {1, 2, 2}<br> };<br></div><div><br></div><div>IMO this is way superior to fourcc and if you were to supplement this with gamma, interlace, yuv subspace, yuv clamping and yuv sampling, then you would have a very comprehensive definition for any type of video frame.</div><div><br></div><div>G.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 4 Apr 2024 at 08:52, Pekka Paalanen <<a href="mailto:pekka.paalanen@haloniitty.fi" target="_blank">pekka.paalanen@haloniitty.fi</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 21:51:39 -0300<br>
salsaman <<a href="mailto:salsaman@gmail.com" target="_blank">salsaman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Regarding my expertise, I was one of the developers most involved in<br>
> developing the "livido" standard which was one of the main topics of the<br>
> Piksel Festivals held in Bergen, Norway.<br>
> In the early days (2004 - 2006) the focus of the annual event was precisely<br>
> the formulation of free / open standards, in this case for video effects.<br>
> Other contributors included:<br>
> Niels Elburg, Denis "Jaromil" Rojo, Tom Schouten, Andraz Tori, Kentaro<br>
> Fukuchi and Carlo Prelz.<br>
> I've also been involved with and put forward proposals for common command /<br>
> query / reply actions (Open Media Control). To the extent that these<br>
> proposals have not gained traction, I don't ascribe this to a failing in<br>
> the proposals, but rather to a lack of developer awareness.<br>
> <br>
> Now regarding specific areas, I went back and reviewed some of the<br>
> available material at <a href="https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/</a><br>
> <br>
> free media player specifications<br>
> <a href="https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/free-media-player-specs/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/free-media-player-specs/</a><br>
> metadata standards for things like comments and ratings - talks mainly<br>
> about audio but describes video files also<br>
> <br>
> I am not a big fan of dbus, but this looks fine, it could be used for video<br>
> players. I'd be happier if it were a bit more abstracted and not tied to a<br>
> specific implementation (dbus). I could suggest some enhancements but I<br>
> guess this is a dbus thing and not an xdg thing.<br>
<br>
Thanks, these sound like they do not need to involve Wayland in any<br>
way, so they are not on my plate.<br>
<br>
> IMO what would be useful would be to define a common set of constants, most<br>
> specifically related to frame pixel fornats<br>
> The 2 most common in use are fourCC and avformat<br>
<br>
Wayland protocol extensions and I suppose also Wayland compositors<br>
internally standardise on drm_fourcc.h formats. Their authoritative<br>
definitions are in<br>
<a href="https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/uapi/drm/drm_fourcc.h" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/uapi/drm/drm_fourcc.h</a><br>
and they are not intentionally mirroring any other fourcc coding.<br>
<br>
These are strictly pixel formats, and do not define anything about<br>
colorimetry, interlacing, field order, frame rate, quantization range,<br>
or anything else.<br>
<br>
> Consider a frame in UYVY fornat<br>
> <br>
> fourCC values:<br>
> <br>
> #define MK_FOURCC(a, b, c, d) (((uint32_t)a) | (((uint32_t)b) << 8) \<br>
> | (((uint32_t)c) << 16) | (((uint32_t)d) <<<br>
> 24))<br>
> <br>
> MK_FOURCC('U', 'Y', 'V', 'Y')<br>
> but also<br>
> MK_FOURCC('I', 'U', 'Y', 'B')<br>
> the same but with interlacing<br>
> MK_FOURCC('H', 'D', 'Y', 'C')<br>
> same but bt709 (hdtv) encoding<br>
> <br>
> so this requires interpretation by sender / receiver - a simpler way could<br>
> be with constants<br>
> <br>
> - probably the nearest we have are ffmpeg / libav definitions, but this is<br>
> the wrong way around, a lib shouldn't define a global standard, the<br>
> standard should come first and the lib should align to that.<br>
> <br>
> We have AV_PIX_FMT_UYVY422 which was formerly PIX_FMT_UYVY422<br>
> and AVCOL_TRC_BT709, which is actually the gamma transfer function, There<br>
> is no equivalent bt709 constant fot bt709 yuv / rgb, instead this exists as<br>
> a matrix.<br>
> <br>
> Now consider how much easier it would be to share data if we had the<br>
> following constants enumerated:<br>
> <br>
> *XDG_VIDEO_PALETTE_UYVY*<br>
> *XDG_VIDEO_INTERLACE_TOP_FIRST*<br>
> *XDG_VIDEO_YUV_SUBSPACE_BT709*<br>
> *XDG_VIDEO_GAMMA_SRGB*<br>
> <br>
> (this is an invented example, not intended to be a real example).<br>
> <br>
> There is a bit more too it but that should be enough to give a general idea.<br>
<br>
Where should this be used?<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
pq<br>
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