[RFC] Multitouch support, step one
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
raster at rasterman.com
Mon Mar 15 00:36:15 PDT 2010
On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:56:05 +1000 Peter Hutterer <peter.hutterer at who-t.net>
cool - no comment here means "ok" :) so just comments on the questioney bits.
> Alrighty, I've been thinking some more about multitouch and here's my
> current proposal:
> Good news first - we can probably make it work.
> Bad news second - not quite just yet, not without kludges.
> Multi-touch as defined in this proposal is limited to single input-point
> multi-touch. This is suitable for indirect touch devices (e.g. touchpads)
> and partially suited for direct touch devices provided a touch is equivalent
> to a single-gesture single-application input.
> "true" multitouch, i.e. multiple independent input points across multiple
> client is not covered here, at this point this problem is unsolved.
> The trick is to get us the former, without limiting future use of the
> I believe this is pretty much what Win 7 or OS X do so I won't bother
> claiming this being innovative. This isn't exactly my idea either, I'm just
> writing up what I got from talking to Benjamin, Bradley, Henrik, Stephane,
> and many more.
> The data we get from the (Linux) kernel includes essentially all the ABS_MT
> events, x, y, w, h, etc. We can pack this data into valuators on the device.
> In the simplest case, a device with two touchpoints would thus send 4
> valuators - the first two being the coordinate pair for the first touch
> point, the latter two the coordinates for the second touch point.
> XI2 provides us with axis labels, so we can label the axes accordingly.
> Clients that don't read axis labels are left guessing what the fancy values
> mean, which is exactly what they're doing already anyway.
ok. here is where i ask.. what are these labels to be?pointless knowing there
are labels - unless we know what they should be to indicate what is what. it's
still guessing if we don't know what they should be :)
> XI2 DeviceEvents provide a bitmask for the valuators present in a device.
> Hence, a driver can dynamically add and remove valuators from events, thus
> providing information about the presence of these valuators.
> e.g. DeviceEvent with valuators [1-4] means two touchpoints down, if the
> next event only includes valuators [3-4], the first touchpoint has
> Core requires us to always send x/y, hence for core emulation we should
> always include _some_ coordinates that are easily translated. While the
> server does caching of absolute values, I think it would be worthwile to
> always have an x/y coordinate _independent of the touchpoints_ in the event.
> The driver can decide which x/y coordinates are chosen if the first
> touchpoint becomes invalid.
hmm so ok. i press 1 finger down - i get a xi2 event with N*2 valuators (N
being the maximum # of touch points supported lets say). bitmask tells me which
are "active". what about core events? i press 1 finger down - i'll get a xi2
event AND a core event. how do i know this for sure? how do i know even though
xi2 claims to have an input device for mt input - that it may not send events
(it's used differently). now i press a 2nd finger - no problems. core events
and xi2 events keep coming - now i release my first finger. what happens to
core events. from the above i gather that the driver will keep sending core
events now - but for the remaining pressed finger. right?
> Hence, the example with 4 valuators above becomes a device with 6 valuators
> instead. x/y and the two coordinate pairs as mentioned above. If extra data
> is provided by the kernel driver, these pairs are simple extended into
> tuples of values, appropriately labeled.
> Core clients will ignore the touchpoints and always process the first two
first 2 that are active of first 2 - if not active then no core events?
> XI1 clients will have to guess what the valuators mean or manually set it up
> in the client.
> XI2 clients will automagically work since the axes are labeled. Note that
> any client that receives such an event always has access to _all_
> touchpoints on the device. This works fine for say 4-finger swipes on a
> touchpad but isn't overly useful for the multiple client case, see
> Since additional touchpoints are valuators only, grabs work as if the
> touches belong to a single device. If any client grabs this device, the
> others will miss out on the touchpoints.
aaah but as above.. no automagic working without knowing these labels :)
> XI2 allows devices to change at runtime. Hence a device may add or remove
> valuators on-the-fly as touchpoints appear and disappear. There is a chance
> of a race condition here. If a driver decides to add/remove valuators
> together with the touchpoints, a client that skips events may miss out.
> e.g. if a DeviceChanged event that removes an axis is followed by one that
> adds an axis, a client may only take the second one as current, thus
> thinking the axis was never removed. There is nothing in the XI2 specs that
> prohibits this. Anyways, adding removing axes together with touchpoints
> seems superfluous if we use the presence of an axis as indicator for touch.
> Rather, I think a device should be set up with a fixed number of valuators
> describing the default maximum number of touchpoints. Additional ones can be
> added at runtime if necessary.
agreed. i really see this having a fixed # of touch points - and not changing -
unless you literally unplug/plug in new hardware that has different features
(has more or less in the way of touch point support).
> Work needed:
> - drivers: updated to parse ABS_MT_FOO and forward it on.
> - X server: the input API still uses the principle of first + num_valuators
> instead of the bitmask that the XI2 protocol uses. These calls need to be
> added and then used by the drivers.
> - Protocol: no protocol changes are necessary, though care must be taken in
> regards to XI1 clients.
> Although the XI2 protocol does allow device changes, this is not specified
> in the XI1 protocol, suggesting that once a device changes, potential XI1
> clients should be either ignored or limited to the set of axes present
> when they issued the ListInputDevices request. Alternatively, the option
> is to just encourage XI1 clients to go the way of the dodo.
> Corner cases:
> We currently have a MAX_VALUATORS define of 32. This may or may not be
> arbitrary and interesting things may or may not happen if we increase that.
another problem - no ability to do "pressure" here. ie have each touch point
have a radius for example (x and y radius) etc. etc. ??? what happened to that?
> A device exposing several axes _and_ multitouch axes will need to be
> appropriately managed by the driver. In this case, the "right" thing to do
> is likely to expose non-MT axes first and tack the MT axes onto the back.
> Some mapping may need to be added.
you mean axes like each touchpoint width/hight (radius) etc. ?
> The future addition of real multitouch will likely require protocol changes.
> These changes will need to include a way of differentiating a device that
> does true multitouch from one that does single-point multi-touch.
> That's it, pretty much (well, not much actually). Feel free to poke holes
> into this proposal.
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) raster at rasterman.com
More information about the xorg-devel