Mini-Compiz on Miniature Linux/OpenGL (embedded 3D window system)

[ZeAtShuttle]

hi,

> I can pretty much assume Scitech is *SOFTWARE* OpenGL, this is no use
> as you've found so you've got something small but quite useless for
> actual real work, so you really haven't got something at all...

huh.. thanks? dont know what to say.. 
why do you jump to assumption just to say that something sucks?

have a look at this:
http://www.rocklyte.com/athene/index.html

Uses SNAP graphics technology from SciTech Software instead of X11. 
a.. Graphics throughput is 17% faster than Microsoft Windows and at least 25% faster than X11. 
a.. Fast booting - between 5 and 10 seconds on modern hardware. 
...

hows that for "quite useless for actual real work",  what say you?


i thought effort in that direction would be welcome and that there are some alternatives, but miniglx seem to be abandoned in favor of EGL and EGL doesnt really exist, or what Brian would say - 
".. been in limbo for a while" 
or
"Mini GLX is a hack.  It filled a specific need when it was created but 
I'm not sure it's an appropriate base for large projects."

and i just hoped that EGL effort has moved to yet some other project, so my main question really boils down to:

is there anything better than scitech at this moment?


or 

is there an -active- project with a goal of making windowing system with OpenGL as primary graphic API - X built with OpenGL not requirement for it?


i have searched for previous mention of it, and all i figure out is that it miniglx/EGX -> xgl/xegl were supposed to be "base" for it, but has everyone abandoned these projects? 

would it not be easier to 'convert' X to OpenGL if it was not requirement to use OpenGL?

would it not be easier to make OpenGL drivers if they were not "bundled" with X, for Open Source as well as for ATI/nVidia?


SciTech did it quite nicely, and I believe they do have solution to "device driver crisis", just like they did once before with VESA..
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4396090607.html


btw, i couldnt care less for scitech except that im thankful they did OpenGL thing and released it GPL, but did i mention  that these are not just graphic OpenGL-MGL drivers, its a 'technology' - SNAP.. complete i/o, interrupt and other device drivers, ALL you need to build complete OS or app like X.. its really compact, it works and its all Plug'n'Play... (OpenGL driver is single file, 800kb)

how many companies are doing/have done this much for the Open software and improving/unifying graphic standrds, how come no one is using scitech now, why no one even wants to consider to have a look at it?



cheers,
zelko



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Airlie" <airlied at gmail.com>
To: "ZeAtShuttle" <zelco at xtra.co.nz>
Cc: "xorg" <xorg at lists.freedesktop.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Mini-Compiz on Miniature Linux/OpenGL (embedded 3D window system)


> >
>> my goal is to produce (for start) really tiny and simple Compiz-like "window
>> manager", the main concern is size and speed... and by size i mean very
>> tiny: 1 - 2 MB
> 
> A single 3D OpenGL driver is this size.. the DRI drivers are all ~3MB,
> fglrx is ~10MB..
> 
> I can pretty much assume Scitech is *SOFTWARE* OpenGL, this is no use
> as you've found so you've got something small but quite useless for
> actual real work, so you really haven't got something at all...
> 
>> since everyone is probably laughing (id be too, few months ago), i might
>> start by showing its possible,
>> actually, there is already complete WORKING development environment for
>> it... thanks to SciTech drivers it can run OpenGL without X, which cuts in
>> size just enough, but not only that... its setup free, its plug'n'play...
>> well, have a look, hope you'll find it interesting:
>>
>> Linux based OpenGL development system without X
>> http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html
>>
>>
>> now, these scitech drivers are great considering all the stuff that is
>> going(not going) on with Linux drivers, but the most important part, for
>> COOL effects, is not (fully) HW accelerated, like draw to textures,
>> blending... but, still... 3D cube desktop and all the -window distortion-
>> effects can be done as it is! im not sure if some of the earlier ATI cards
>> that got specs out maybe even fully accelerated there, but no one seem to
>> use/know about these drivers so its hard to find out..
> 
> They aren't accelerated if you are that small and they don't have a
> kernel component..
> 
>>
>> its all about drivers, OpenGL drivers,
>> i've tried these as well, but could not make them work:
>>
>> * fbdev/DRI
>> * directFB
>> * GGI/libGGI
>>
>>
>> can someone, please, answer this:
>>
>> 1.) are there any similar projects to this?
>>
>> 2.) anyone keen to help me make fbdev/DRI(miniglx) or GGI version of the
>> system?
> 
> You want EGL or miniglx, you'll have to ship only open source drivers
> which with miniglx pretty much means possible radeon, intel, and mga
> hw...
> 
>>
>> 3.) who knows if its possible to "convert" binary ATI/nVidia drivers to work
>> without X?
> 
> No not possible.
> 
>> 4.) anyone knows whats going on with that Khronos group, OpenGL ES and
>> stuff, can that be used on x86 platform? with, maybe some ATI mobilty cards
>> or someting? is that just 'some' specification or are there some drivers
>> there for some hardware?
> 
> Not for any PC class hardware, EGL is what you want to implement it
> just that the open source EGL hasn't proven as interesting as people
> wanted so hasn't gotten much momentum.. and people are busy doing
> other stuff....
> 
> Dave.
> 
> 
> -- 
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