[Fwd: xorg Digest, Vol 35, Issue 129]

Thu Jul 3 02:33:12 PDT 2008

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: 	xorg Digest, Vol 35, Issue 129
Datum: 	Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:58:00 -0700
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
      (David De La Harpe Golden)
   2. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution (Nikos Chantziaras)
   3. RE: Max resolution of Intel Graphics Chipsets (Jin, Gordon)
   4. Re: Resolution indpendence (David De La Harpe Golden)
   5. per-device xkb rules? (Mikhail Gusarov)
   6. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
      (David De La Harpe Golden)
   7. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution (Keith Packard)
   8. Re: per-device xkb rules? (Peter Hutterer)
   9. Re: the OLPC XO grab button (triggering mouse scrolling using
      a	keypress) (Peter Hutterer)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 03:54:32 +0100
From: David De La Harpe Golden <david.delaharpe.golden at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Cc: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <48699C68.30207 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

>  The DPI  does not change (only the resolution changes.)

Terminology: DPI measures the resolution...

> If there is a way, how can I force a constant DPI regardless of resolution?

AFAIK the xrandr command line tool should allow you to override with
--dpi  , given xrandr 1.2,  if you use it for mode changing rather than
the GUI tools.

If you're using nvidia at the moment you may not be able to do this,
I dunno.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 06:10:05 +0300
From: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <g4c76h$ali$1 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

David De La Harpe Golden wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> 
>>  The DPI  does not change (only the resolution changes.)
> 
> Terminology: DPI measures the resolution...

Sorry, I should have clarified; with "resolution" I mean the width and 
height of the picture in pixels.  Changing those on a DFP that always 
operates at a fixed native resolution won't change the DPI value (for 
example when changing from 1280x1024 to 1024x768 the picture gets 
smaller which means that the resolution actually stays the same; it's 
still 1280x1024 but with black borders around a central picture of size 
1024x768).

>> If there is a way, how can I force a constant DPI regardless of resolution?
> 
> AFAIK the xrandr command line tool should allow you to override with
> --dpi  , given xrandr 1.2,  if you use it for mode changing rather than
> the GUI tools.
> 
> If you're using nvidia at the moment you may not be able to do this,
> I dunno.

I'm on VESA for running natively and xf86-vmware for running in a VM.  I 
was hoping for a "set and forget" option either in xorg's arguments or 
xorg.conf rather than having to open the CLI and call xrandr each time I 
switch resolution.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:12:06 +0800
From: "Jin, Gordon" <gordon.jin at intel.com>
Subject: RE: Max resolution of Intel Graphics Chipsets
To: "Erwin Rol" <mailinglists at erwinrol.com>,	"Tomas Carnecky"
	<tom at dbservice.com>
Cc: xorg <xorg at lists.freedesktop.org>
Message-ID:
	<70F95043FD1E5B40B3872B8784B9EB75017A34C0 at pdsmsx414.ccr.corp.intel.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Erwin Rol wrote on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 7:55 AM:
> On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 01:26 +0200, Tomas Carnecky wrote:
>> Erwin Rol wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> I am looking for a solution where I can connect two TFT's of
>>> 1440x900, and display different images on those TFT's.
>>> 
>>> Most Intel chipsets support two independent outputs, but it seems
>>> that the internal framebuffer is the limiting factor here. I would
>>> need 2880x900 or 1440x1800 (the layout is not important).
>>> 
>>> For example, do I understand correct that for example the Intel 915
>>> chipset does support two outputs of 1440x900 (or even larger), but
>>> that the internal framebuffer only can be 2048x1536?
>>> 
>>> I checked several Intel chipsets and they all seem to be "limited"
>>> to 2048x1536. Are there Intel chipsets that can do for example
>>> 2048x2048, so it can fit a 1440x1800 resolution?
>> 
>> $ xrandr
>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1200, maximum 4096 x
>> 1440 ... 
>> 
> 
> Weird the datasheet mentions a maximum resolution of ;
> - Supports flat panels up to 2048x1536 @ 60 Hz or digital CRT/HDTV at
> 1920x1080 @ 85 Hz

This is talking about one output, not frame buffer.

The framebuffer 2048x2048 can work on your 915. If you need larger frame
buffer AND 3d (dri), you need 965.
For this limitation, see
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10479.

-Gordon

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:00:04 +0100
From: David De La Harpe Golden <david.delaharpe.golden at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Resolution indpendence
To: Steven J Newbury <steve at snewbury.org.uk>
Cc: Glynn Clements <glynn at gclements.plus.com>,
	xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <4869ABC4.6020205 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

David De La Harpe Golden wrote:

> I'd say that would depend on the how "busy" the vector icon is and the
> quality of the renderer.  It's certainly _possible_

Attached please find (not sure it'll get through to the list)

folder_html16x16i.png -  16x16 *untweaked* .png export from inkscape of
the well-known crystal [1] theme html-folder .svg icon. Not a complete
blur.

folder_html16x16s.png - 16x6 from a 32x33 [source svg not quite square I
guess] export from inkscape passed through sublcd for some simple
subpixel improvement (for viewing on usual horiz. rgb-order lcd screen).
Quite noticeably better than the non-subpixel one.

folder_html16x16t.png -  16x16 from a 256x261 export from inkscape,
contrast-boosted in gimp by 10 whatever-the-heck-the-gimp-units-mean
then resized with gimp to 32x33, then passed through sublcd.

I'd be willing to concede that the more stylised 2D folder bitmap image
(as IIRC actually used in the crystal theme at 16x16 ish, visible in
[1]) is clearer from a UI perspective than any of those naively scaled
icons, but the attached files aren't _terrible_.

But wait! in principle that the 2D folder bitmap image need not have
been a bitmap image - the primary reason it's clearer at low res is
because it's less "busy", not because it's a bitmap. An alternative
_vector_ icon in 2D style could have been supplied for the lores
display, that could essentially match the 16x16 icon for clarity
(especially given hinting...), AND would have the advantage of rendering
at 15x15, 17x17, 18x18 and so on.

(Hmm. even on a hi-res display, people's unaided visual system has
limits.  So the less "busy" icon might still be preferred below a
certain _physical_ size [and viewing distance of course] too.)

[1]
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=8341&file1=8341-1.jpg&file2=8341-2.jpg&file3=8341-3.jpg&name=Crystal+SVG

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:08:07 +0700
From: Mikhail Gusarov <dottedmag at dottedmag.net>
Subject: per-device xkb rules?
To: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <8763rqdz6g.fsf at frontier.dottedmag.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello.

Is it possible to have xkb configuration on the per-device level?

I used to keep all per-keyboard quirks I like (remapping
Ctrl/Option/Command -> Ctrl/Win/Alt on Apple keyboard, moving ~ and
russian 'io' to the proper place, not the one decided by keyboard
manufacturer etc), but with more than one keyboard regularely
attached/detached it became a burden.

Or maybe this is inapropriate level for such manipulations? Where do
they belong then?

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 06:40:50 +0100
From: David De La Harpe Golden <david.delaharpe.golden at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Cc: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <4869C362.7050801 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> I'm on VESA for running natively and xf86-vmware for running in a VM.  I 
> was hoping for a "set and forget" option either in xorg's arguments or 
> xorg.conf rather than having to open the CLI and call xrandr each time I 
> switch resolution.

(I don't know enough about X.org to know if there's any such
option lurking, anyway...)

Workaround suggestion: command line tools can be wrapped very
easily indeed with tcl/tk to give a throwaway GUI tool (e.g.
wish script below!).

Maybe a feature request to an existing nicer xrandr gui tool
like krandrtray is a better long term option, of course -
there are quite a lot of devices with the behaviour you described.

(On unix/linux, once something has a command line interface, it
can typically have a minimal gui flung together for it in minutes.
tcl/tk is not necessarily pretty, but it works.  Though
to be fair, tk recently had a makeover (8.5 uses nonsucky font
drawing on linux), and can be used with quite a few languages
besides tcl.)

#!/usr/bin/wish

set dpi "86"

set pxsizes { "1280x1024" "1024x768" "640x480" }

foreach pxsize $pxsizes {
    button .$pxsize -text $pxsize  \
        -command "exec xrandr -s $pxsize --dpi $dpi ; exit"
    pack .$pxsize
}

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:53:17 -0700
From: Keith Packard <keithp at keithp.com>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Cc: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <1214891597.4285.127.camel at koto.keithp.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 06:10 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> I'm on VESA for running natively and xf86-vmware for running in a VM.  I 
> was hoping for a "set and forget" option either in xorg's arguments or 
> xorg.conf rather than having to open the CLI and call xrandr each time I 
> switch resolution.

RandR 1.2 passes the physical screen size from the client to the X
server whenever the pixel size is set. If you want to fix the DPI,
you'll need to fix whatever tool you use that sets the screen size.

-- 
keith.packard at intel.com
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:07:11 +0930
From: Peter Hutterer <peter.hutterer at who-t.net>
Subject: Re: per-device xkb rules?
To: Mikhail Gusarov <dottedmag at dottedmag.net>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <20080701063711.GB9371 at emu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:08:07AM +0700, Mikhail Gusarov wrote:
> Is it possible to have xkb configuration on the per-device level?

yes.
setxkbmap -device for run-time manipulation, otherwise if you're using the
evdev driver + hotplug, you can adjust hal's fdi file to merge the appropriate
xkb options depending on.. well, whatever. the server just picks it up then.

Cheers,
  Peter

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:52:09 +0930
From: Peter Hutterer <peter.hutterer at who-t.net>
Subject: Re: the OLPC XO grab button (triggering mouse scrolling using
	a	keypress)
To: Erik Garrison <erik at laptop.org>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <20080701062209.GA9371 at emu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 07:35:16PM -0400, Erik Garrison wrote:
> The keyboard has two buttons which are marked with a hand.  The
> interested may see a schematic at
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts.  It was intended at
> design time that pressing either of these buttons (Super_L and Super_R)
> and simultaneously moving the mouse would trigger x and y scrolling in
> X11 applications.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone knows of ways in which similar functionality has
> been implemented elsewhere.  In general I'd like some advice about the
> best place to implement this feature.

Just put a passive grab on the keys to receive the key press event and then,
depending on what you mean by scrolling:
- mouse wheel emulation
  put a (sync) grab on the mouse and use XTestFakeButtonEvent on buttons
  4/5/6/7 for to scroll. you'll need to mess around a bit with XAllowEvents,
  but it should work.
- viewport scrolling
  XWarpPointer seems the only way, I don't see any other callers for
  xf86SetViewport that could be used directly.

Cheers,
  Peter

------------------------------

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