[Fwd: xorg Digest, Vol 36, Issue 8]

Thu Jul 3 02:37:53 PDT 2008

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: 	xorg Digest, Vol 36, Issue 8
Datum: 	Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:33:25 -0700
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution (Steven J Newbury)
   2. Re: synaptics touchpad. reconnect not supported ( Nicol? Chieffo )
   3. Re: synaptics touchpad. reconnect not supported (Steven J Newbury)
   4. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution (Nicolas Mailhot)
   5. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution (Nikos Chantziaras)
   6. Re: radeon EXA performance questions (Ross Vandegrift)
   7. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
      (David De La Harpe Golden)
   8. Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution (Nikos Chantziaras)
   9. Re: Resolution indpendence (David De La Harpe Golden)
  10. Re: Further notes on 7.4 (Daniel Stone)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:41:26 +0100
From: Steven J Newbury <steve at snewbury.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Cc: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID:
	<1214944886.15478.83.camel at infinity.southview.snewbury.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 22:47 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Keith Packard wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 06:10 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > 
> >> I'm on VESA for running natively and xf86-vmware for running in a VM.  I 
> >> was hoping for a "set and forget" option either in xorg's arguments or 
> >> xorg.conf rather than having to open the CLI and call xrandr each time I 
> >> switch resolution.
> > 
> > RandR 1.2 passes the physical screen size from the client to the X
> > server whenever the pixel size is set. If you want to fix the DPI,
> > you'll need to fix whatever tool you use that sets the screen size.
> 
> I'm not really sure who is responsible for fixing it.  A fixed DPI means 
> that the physical screen dimensions are not constant.  Currently the X 
> server assumes those dimensions are constant.  With good reason; there 
> aren't any monitors out there made of gum (yet?)  However, with DFPs 
> that are set not to scale, the wanted behavior is really that of a 
> stretchy monitor made of gum.  It's like disconnecting the bigger 
> display and connecting a smaller one while X runs (without restarting).
> 
> The only thorough way of fixing it IMO is a setting in the X server that 
> basically says "trust the user; don't be smart in calculating DPI; 
> simply trust what the user said and keep DPI constant no matter what."
> 
The latest intel driver has panel fitting support whereby you can set
whether the panel should scale, centre or keep aspect through xrandr
properties.  This exibits the same behaviour as Nikos reported, execpt
that GNOME seems to ignore runtime changes to the DPI (that would be a
GNOME bug).  In this case shouldn't the driver know about changes in the
area and asepct and be able to recalculate the dimensions?  Would it not
be possible to also set the property even if there isn't software
control over the panel mode such that it would do the right thing in
Nikos' case?

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 23:14:53 +0200
From: " Nicol? Chieffo " <84yelo3 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: synaptics touchpad. reconnect not supported
To: "Steven J Newbury" <steve at snewbury.org.uk>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID:
	<641322f90807011414u13008155h3281be5e5b6e4f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thank you very much for the attachment. I will test it.

I cannot understand where is the problem. Is it a kernel problem?
because the input device should be connected to the same dev file?
Or anything else?

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Steven J Newbury <steve at snewbury.org.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 22:49 +0200, Nicol? Chieffo wrote:
>> I will check. Did you post it exactly for the same problem I have?
> Pretty much, but to save you looking...
>
> Obviously you'll need to change the options for your own setup.
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:16:05 +0100
From: Steven J Newbury <steve at snewbury.org.uk>
Subject: Re: synaptics touchpad. reconnect not supported
To: Nicol? Chieffo <84yelo3 at gmail.com>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID:
	<1214946965.15478.93.camel at infinity.southview.snewbury.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 22:10 +0100, Steven J Newbury wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 22:49 +0200, Nicol? Chieffo wrote:
> > I will check. Did you post it exactly for the same problem I have?
> Pretty much, but to save you looking...
> 
> Obviously you'll need to change the options for your own setup.
The rules for keyboard and mouse aren't needed in there either since
they're in the system policy anyway, but I never bothered taking them
out since it's working ok, maybe I should though. :)

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:55:40 +0200
From: Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: David De La Harpe Golden <david.delaharpe.golden at gmail.com>
Cc: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>, xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <1214949341.18660.1.camel at rousalka.okg>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Le mardi 01 juillet 2008 ? 20:39 +0100, David De La Harpe Golden a
?crit :
> Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> 
> > The DPI you see in software in the DPI it controls. Any auto-scaling
> > done by the hardware behind its back is beyond the software control.
> > 
> > What you really want with a DFP is to always operate it at native
> > resolution without this kind of scaling,
> 
> I'd agree, but note that one of Nikos' use cases was e.g. using  a
> vmware x server, which appears as a window on a real display. In that
> case, when the window is resized (by changing the _virtual_ screen
> size),

I'd expect wmware to decalre a new physical size automatically when that
happens (since that's its actual behaviour)

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:07:52 +0300
From: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <g4e9rr$sfa$1 at ger.gmane.org>
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Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le mardi 01 juillet 2008 ? 20:39 +0100, David De La Harpe Golden a
> ?crit :
>> Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>>
>>> The DPI you see in software in the DPI it controls. Any auto-scaling
>>> done by the hardware behind its back is beyond the software control.
>>>
>>> What you really want with a DFP is to always operate it at native
>>> resolution without this kind of scaling,
>> I'd agree, but note that one of Nikos' use cases was e.g. using  a
>> vmware x server, which appears as a window on a real display. In that
>> case, when the window is resized (by changing the _virtual_ screen
>> size),
> 
> I'd expect wmware to decalre a new physical size automatically when that
> happens (since that's its actual behaviour)

This doesn't solve the issue when not using vmware.  I fix in X's 
configuration solves both cases.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:04 -0400
From: Ross Vandegrift <ross at kallisti.us>
Subject: Re: radeon EXA performance questions
To: Michel D?nzer <michel at tungstengraphics.com>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <20080701221404.GA13150 at kallisti.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 11:53:29AM -0400, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> That was only a slightly educated guess :)
> My Xorg.0.log reports Xserver 1.4.0.90, and radeon module 4.3.0.
> 
> If I get the time today, I'll try upgrading the Xorg in Debian
> unstable.

Debian unstable's versions were only marginally newer, reporting the
same version in Xorg.log.

Could this be MTRR related?  I notice these messages in my dmesg:

[drm] Initialized radeon 1.28.0 20060524 on minor 0
mtrr: type mismatch for c0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining
mtrr: type mismatch for c0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining
mtrr: type mismatch for c0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining
mtrr: type mismatch for c0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining
mtrr: type mismatch for c0000000,10000000 old: write-back new: write-combining
[drm] Setting GART location based on new memory map
[drm] Loading R300 Microcode
[drm] writeback test succeeded in 1 usecs

In Xorg.log:
(WW) RADEON(0): Failed to set up write-combining range (0xc0000000,0x10000000)

And my /proc/mtrr is:
reg00: base=0x00000000 (   0MB), size=65536MB: write-back, count=1
reg01: base=0x7ff00000 (2047MB), size=   1MB: uncachable, count=1
reg02: base=0x80000000 (2048MB), size=2048MB: uncachable, count=1

That looks sane to me, but I'm not an expert at this stuff.  I've gone
back and updated my xorg.conf so that X can choose appropriate
options for EXA.

Thanks,

Ross

-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at kallisti.us

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 23:41:08 +0100
From: David De La Harpe Golden <david.delaharpe.golden at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot at gmail.com>
Cc: xorg at freedesktop.org, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Message-ID: <486AB284.1050406 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:

> I'd expect wmware to decalre a new physical size automatically when that
> happens (since that's its actual behaviour)
> 

Ah, changelog says that was added 2006-01-12 to xf86-video-vmware .

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:43:55 +0300
From: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc at arcor.de>
Subject: Re: Constant DPI regardless of resolution
To: xorg at freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <g4ebve$3gu$1 at ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

David De La Harpe Golden wrote:
> Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> 
>> I'd expect wmware to decalre a new physical size automatically when that
>> happens (since that's its actual behaviour)
>>
> 
> Ah, changelog says that was added 2006-01-12 to xf86-video-vmware .

Then I have no idea why it actually doesn't :P

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:30:45 +0100
From: David De La Harpe Golden <david.delaharpe.golden at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Resolution indpendence
To: Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen <eirik at opera.com>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <486ABE25.6000004 at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen wrote:

> That's a simple application of nyquist. Features smaller than 2
> pixels can not be accurately represented

That's a bit simplistic:  that'll tell you which
features will be accurately preserved. It doesn't tell you if those
features were important to preserve to make the reduced icon
sufficiently visually distinctive and recognisable to remain useful in
context.

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:33:16 +0300
From: Daniel Stone <daniel at fooishbar.org>
Subject: Re: Further notes on 7.4
To: David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>
Cc: xorg at lists.freedesktop.org
Message-ID: <20080701233316.GA31339 at fooishbar.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 08:21:03PM +0100, David Gerard wrote:
> 2008/7/1 Adam Jackson <ajax at nwnk.net>:
> > On Mon, 2008-06-30 at 15:22 -0700, Dan Nicholson wrote:
> >> - twm/xdm: Certainly legacy in the window/display manager world, but
> >> it seems strange to install X without one of each. Also, the default
> >> xinitrc runs twm, xclock and xterm, none of which would be available
> >> with the core X installation.
> 
> > That's really just tempting me to remove startx from the list as well.
> 
> Put it all in a separate tarball called "classic," for those who still
> treasure their O'Reilly X books ;-)

Exactment.  Our core business is the implementation of the X Window
System.  Testing is counted separately, so why do we tie a sample
implementation of what people should try to avoid when designing desktop
environments to our most important development?

Cheers,
Daniel
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