Thanks, Oak
-----Original Message----- From: Vishwanathapura, Niranjana niranjana.vishwanathapura@intel.com Sent: June 14, 2022 1:02 PM To: Landwerlin, Lionel G lionel.g.landwerlin@intel.com Cc: Zeng, Oak oak.zeng@intel.com; Intel GFX <intel- gfx@lists.freedesktop.org>; Maling list - DRI developers <dri- devel@lists.freedesktop.org>; Hellstrom, Thomas thomas.hellstrom@intel.com; Wilson, Chris P chris.p.wilson@intel.com; Vetter, Daniel daniel.vetter@intel.com; Christian König christian.koenig@amd.com Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [RFC v3 1/3] drm/doc/rfc: VM_BIND feature design document
On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 10:04:00AM +0300, Lionel Landwerlin wrote:
On 13/06/2022 21:02, Niranjana Vishwanathapura wrote:
On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 06:33:07AM -0700, Zeng, Oak wrote:
Regards, Oak
-----Original Message----- From: Intel-gfx intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org On Behalf Of Niranjana Vishwanathapura Sent: June 10, 2022 1:43 PM To: Landwerlin, Lionel G lionel.g.landwerlin@intel.com Cc: Intel GFX intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org; Maling list - DRI developers <dri- devel@lists.freedesktop.org>; Hellstrom, Thomas thomas.hellstrom@intel.com; Wilson, Chris P chris.p.wilson@intel.com; Vetter, Daniel daniel.vetter@intel.com; Christian König
Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [RFC v3 1/3] drm/doc/rfc: VM_BIND feature design document
On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 11:18:14AM +0300, Lionel Landwerlin wrote:
On 10/06/2022 10:54, Niranjana Vishwanathapura wrote: >On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 09:53:24AM +0300, Lionel Landwerlin wrote: >>On 09/06/2022 22:31, Niranjana Vishwanathapura wrote: >>>On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 05:49:09PM +0300, Lionel Landwerlin wrote: >>>> On 09/06/2022 00:55, Jason Ekstrand wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 4:44 PM Niranjana Vishwanathapura >>>> niranjana.vishwanathapura@intel.com wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 08, 2022 at 08:33:25AM +0100, Tvrtko
Ursulin wrote:
>>>> > >>>> > >>>> >On 07/06/2022 22:32, Niranjana Vishwanathapura wrote: >>>> >>On Tue, Jun 07, 2022 at 11:18:11AM -0700, Niranjana >>>>Vishwanathapura >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>On Tue, Jun 07, 2022 at 12:12:03PM -0500, Jason >>>>Ekstrand wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:52 PM Niranjana
Vishwanathapura
>>>> >>>> niranjana.vishwanathapura@intel.com wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 03, 2022 at 10:20:25AM +0300, Lionel >>>>Landwerlin >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > On 02/06/2022 23:35, Jason Ekstrand wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 3:11 PM Niranjana >>>>Vishwanathapura >>>> >>>> > niranjana.vishwanathapura@intel.com wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > On Wed, Jun 01, 2022 at 01:28:36PM
-0700, Matthew
>>>> >>>>Brost wrote: >>>> >>>> > >On Wed, Jun 01, 2022 at 05:25:49PM
+0300, Lionel
>>>> Landwerlin >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > >> On 17/05/2022 21:32, Niranjana Vishwanathapura >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > >> > +VM_BIND/UNBIND ioctl will immediately start >>>> >>>> binding/unbinding >>>> >>>> > the mapping in an >>>> >>>> > >> > +async worker. The binding and >>>>unbinding will >>>> >>>>work like a >>>> >>>> special >>>> >>>> > GPU engine. >>>> >>>> > >> > +The binding and unbinding operations are >>>> serialized and >>>> >>>> will >>>> >>>> > wait on specified >>>> >>>> > >> > +input fences before the operation >>>>and will signal >>>> the >>>> >>>> output >>>> >>>> > fences upon the >>>> >>>> > >> > +completion of the operation. Due to >>>> serialization, >>>> >>>> completion of >>>> >>>> > an operation >>>> >>>> > >> > +will also indicate that all >>>>previous operations >>>> >>>>are also >>>> >>>> > complete. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> I guess we should avoid saying "will >>>>immediately >>>> start >>>> >>>> > binding/unbinding" if >>>> >>>> > >> there are fences involved. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> And the fact that it's happening in an async >>>> >>>>worker seem to >>>> >>>> imply >>>> >>>> > it's not >>>> >>>> > >> immediate. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > Ok, will fix. >>>> >>>> > This was added because in earlier design >>>>binding was >>>> deferred >>>> >>>> until >>>> >>>> > next execbuff. >>>> >>>> > But now it is non-deferred (immediate in >>>>that sense). >>>> >>>>But yah, >>>> >>>> this is >>>> >>>> > confusing >>>> >>>> > and will fix it. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> I have a question on the behavior of the bind >>>> >>>>operation when >>>> >>>> no >>>> >>>> > input fence >>>> >>>> > >> is provided. Let say I do : >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> VM_BIND (out_fence=fence1) >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> VM_BIND (out_fence=fence2) >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> VM_BIND (out_fence=fence3) >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> In what order are the fences going to >>>>be signaled? >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> In the order of VM_BIND ioctls? Or out >>>>of order? >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> Because you wrote "serialized I assume >>>>it's : in >>>> order >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > Yes, in the order of VM_BIND/UNBIND >>>>ioctls. Note that >>>> >>>>bind and >>>> >>>> unbind >>>> >>>> > will use >>>> >>>> > the same queue and hence are ordered. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> One thing I didn't realize is that >>>>because we only >>>> get one >>>> >>>> > "VM_BIND" engine, >>>> >>>> > >> there is a disconnect from the Vulkan >>>>specification. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> In Vulkan VM_BIND operations are >>>>serialized but >>>> >>>>per engine. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> So you could have something like this : >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> VM_BIND (engine=rcs0, in_fence=fence1, >>>> out_fence=fence2) >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> VM_BIND (engine=ccs0, in_fence=fence3, >>>> out_fence=fence4) >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> fence1 is not signaled >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> fence3 is signaled >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> So the second VM_BIND will proceed before the >>>> >>>>first VM_BIND. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> I guess we can deal with that scenario in >>>> >>>>userspace by doing >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> > wait >>>> >>>> > >> ourselves in one thread per engines. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> But then it makes the VM_BIND input >>>>fences useless. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> Daniel : what do you think? Should be >>>>rework this or >>>> just >>>> >>>> deal with >>>> >>>> > wait >>>> >>>> > >> fences in userspace? >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >My opinion is rework this but make the >>>>ordering via >>>> >>>>an engine >>>> >>>> param >>>> >>>> > optional. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >e.g. A VM can be configured so all binds >>>>are ordered >>>> >>>>within the >>>> >>>> VM >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >e.g. A VM can be configured so all binds >>>>accept an >>>> engine >>>> >>>> argument >>>> >>>> > (in >>>> >>>> > >the case of the i915 likely this is a >>>>gem context >>>> >>>>handle) and >>>> >>>> binds >>>> >>>> > >ordered with respect to that engine. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >This gives UMDs options as the later >>>>likely consumes >>>> >>>>more KMD >>>> >>>> > resources >>>> >>>> > >so if a different UMD can live with
binds being
>>>> >>>>ordered within >>>> >>>> the VM >>>> >>>> > >they can use a mode consuming less resources. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > I think we need to be careful here if we >>>>are looking >>>> for some >>>> >>>> out of >>>> >>>> > (submission) order completion of vm_bind/unbind. >>>> >>>> > In-order completion means, in a batch of >>>>binds and >>>> >>>>unbinds to be >>>> >>>> > completed in-order, user only needs to specify >>>> >>>>in-fence for the >>>> >>>> > first bind/unbind call and the our-fence >>>>for the last >>>> >>>> bind/unbind >>>> >>>> > call. Also, the VA released by an unbind >>>>call can be >>>> >>>>re-used by >>>> >>>> > any subsequent bind call in that
in-order batch.
>>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > These things will break if >>>>binding/unbinding were to >>>> >>>>be allowed >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>> > go out of order (of submission) and user >>>>need to be >>>> extra >>>> >>>> careful >>>> >>>> > not to run into pre-mature triggereing of >>>>out-fence and >>>> bind >>>> >>>> failing >>>> >>>> > as VA is still in use etc. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > Also, VM_BIND binds the provided
mapping on the
>>>> specified >>>> >>>> address >>>> >>>> > space >>>> >>>> > (VM). So, the uapi is not engine/context >>>>specific. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > We can however add a 'queue' to the uapi >>>>which can be >>>> >>>>one from >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> > pre-defined queues, >>>> >>>> > I915_VM_BIND_QUEUE_0 >>>> >>>> > I915_VM_BIND_QUEUE_1 >>>> >>>> > ... >>>> >>>> > I915_VM_BIND_QUEUE_(N-1) >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > KMD will spawn an async work queue for >>>>each queue which >>>> will >>>> >>>> only >>>> >>>> > bind the mappings on that queue in the
order of
>>>> submission. >>>> >>>> > User can assign the queue to per engine >>>>or anything >>>> >>>>like that. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > But again here, user need to be
careful and not
>>>> >>>>deadlock these >>>> >>>> > queues with circular dependency of fences. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > I prefer adding this later an as >>>>extension based on >>>> >>>>whether it >>>> >>>> > is really helping with the implementation. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > I can tell you right now that having >>>>everything on a >>>> single >>>> >>>> in-order >>>> >>>> > queue will not get us the perf we want. >>>>What vulkan >>>> >>>>really wants >>>> >>>> is one >>>> >>>> > of two things: >>>> >>>> > 1. No implicit ordering of VM_BIND
ops. They just
>>>> happen in >>>> >>>> whatever >>>> >>>> > their dependencies are resolved and we >>>>ensure ordering >>>> >>>>ourselves >>>> >>>> by >>>> >>>> > having a syncobj in the VkQueue. >>>> >>>> > 2. The ability to create multiple VM_BIND >>>>queues. We >>>> need at >>>> >>>> least 2 >>>> >>>> > but I don't see why there needs to be a >>>>limit besides >>>> >>>>the limits >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> > i915 API already has on the number of >>>>engines. Vulkan >>>> could >>>> >>>> expose >>>> >>>> > multiple sparse binding queues to the >>>>client if it's not >>>> >>>> arbitrarily >>>> >>>> > limited. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks Jason, Lionel. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason, what are you referring to when you say >>>>"limits the i915 >>>> API >>>> >>>> already >>>> >>>> has on the number of engines"? I am not sure if >>>>there is such >>>> an uapi >>>> >>>> today. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There's a limit of something like 64 total engines >>>>today based on >>>> the >>>> >>>> number of bits we can cram into the exec flags in >>>>execbuffer2. I >>>> think >>>> >>>> someone had an extended version that allowed more >>>>but I ripped it >>>> out >>>> >>>> because no one was using it. Of course, >>>>execbuffer3 might not >>>> >>>>have that >>>> >>>> problem at all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Thanks Jason. >>>> >>>Ok, I am not sure which exec flag is that, but yah, >>>>execbuffer3 >>>> probably >>>> >>>will not have this limiation. So, we need to define a >>>> VM_BIND_MAX_QUEUE >>>> >>>and somehow export it to user (I am thinking of >>>>embedding it in >>>> >>>I915_PARAM_HAS_VM_BIND. bits[0]->HAS_VM_BIND,
bits[1-3]->'n'
>>>> meaning 2^n >>>> >>>queues. >>>> >> >>>> >>Ah, I think you are waking about I915_EXEC_RING_MASK >>>>(0x3f) which >>>> execbuf3 >>>> >>>> Yup! That's exactly the limit I was talking about. >>>> >>>> >>will also have. So, we can simply define in vm_bind/unbind >>>> structures, >>>> >> >>>> >>#define I915_VM_BIND_MAX_QUEUE 64 >>>> >> __u32 queue; >>>> >> >>>> >>I think that will keep things simple. >>>> > >>>> >Hmmm? What does execbuf2 limit has to do with how
many engines
>>>> >hardware can have? I suggest not to do that. >>>> > >>>> >Change with added this: >>>> > >>>> > if (set.num_engines > I915_EXEC_RING_MASK + 1) >>>> > return -EINVAL; >>>> > >>>> >To context creation needs to be undone and so let users >>>>create engine >>>> >maps with all hardware engines, and let execbuf3 access >>>>them all. >>>> > >>>> >>>> Earlier plan was to carry I915_EXEC_RING_MAP (0x3f) to >>>>execbuff3 also. >>>> Hence, I was using the same limit for VM_BIND queues >>>>(64, or 65 if we >>>> make it N+1). >>>> But, as discussed in other thread of this RFC series, we >>>>are planning >>>> to drop this I915_EXEC_RING_MAP in execbuff3. So,
there won't be
>>>> any uapi that limits the number of engines (and hence >>>>the vm_bind >>>> queues >>>> need to be supported). >>>> >>>> If we leave the number of vm_bind queues to be
arbitrarily large
>>>> (__u32 queue_idx) then, we need to have a hashmap for >>>>queue (a wq, >>>> work_item and a linked list) lookup from the user >>>>specified queue >>>> index. >>>> Other option is to just put some hard limit (say 64 or >>>>65) and use >>>> an array of queues in VM (each created upon first use). >>>>I prefer this. >>>> >>>> I don't get why a VM_BIND queue is any different from any >>>>other queue or >>>> userspace-visible kernel object. But I'll leave those >>>>details up to >>>> danvet or whoever else might be reviewing the
implementation.
>>>> --Jason >>>> >>>> I kind of agree here. Wouldn't be simpler to have the bind >>>>queue created >>>> like the others when we build the engine map? >>>> >>>> For userspace it's then just matter of selecting the right >>>>queue ID when >>>> submitting. >>>> >>>> If there is ever a possibility to have this work on the GPU, >>>>it would be >>>> all ready. >>>> >>> >>>I did sync offline with Matt Brost on this. >>>We can add a VM_BIND engine class and let user create VM_BIND >>>engines (queues). >>>The problem is, in i915 engine creating interface is bound to >>>gem_context. >>>So, in vm_bind ioctl, we would need both context_id and >>>queue_idx for proper >>>lookup of the user created engine. This is bit ackward as
vm_bind is an
>>>interface to VM (address space) and has nothing to do with
gem_context.
>> >> >>A gem_context has a single vm object right? >> >>Set through I915_CONTEXT_PARAM_VM at creation or given a
default
>>one if not. >> >>So it's just like picking up the vm like it's done at execbuffer >>time right now : eb->context->vm >> > >Are you suggesting replacing 'vm_id' with 'context_id' in the >VM_BIND/UNBIND >ioctl and probably call it CONTEXT_BIND/UNBIND, because VM can
be
>obtained >from the context?
Yes, because if we go for engines, they're associated with a context and so also associated with the VM bound to the context.
Hmm...context doesn't sould like the right interface. It should be VM and engine (independent of context). Engine can be virtual or soft engine (kernel thread), each with its own queue. We can add an interface to create such engines (independent of context). But we are anway implicitly creating it when user uses a new queue_idx. If in future we have hardware engines for VM_BIND operation, we can have that explicit inteface to create engine instances and the queue_index in vm_bind/unbind will point to those engines. Anyone has any thoughts? Daniel?
Exposing gem_context or intel_context to user space is a strange concept to me. A context represent some hw resources that is used to complete certain task. User space should care allocate some resources (memory, queues) and submit tasks to queues. But user space doesn't care how certain task is mapped to a HW context - driver/guc should take care of this.
So a cleaner interface to me is: user space create a vm, create gem object, vm_bind it to a vm; allocate queues (internally represent compute or blitter HW. Queue can be virtual to user) for this vm; submit tasks to queues. User can create multiple queues under one vm. One queue is only for one vm.
I915 driver/guc manage the hw compute or blitter resources which is transparent to user space. When i915 or guc decide to schedule a queue (run tasks on that queue), a HW engine will be pick up and set up properly for the vm of that queue (ie., switch to page tables of that vm) - this is a context switch.
From vm_bind perspective, it simply bind a gem_object to a vm. Engine/queue is not a parameter to vm_bind, as any engine can be pick up by i915/guc to execute a task using the vm bound va.
I didn't completely follow the discussion here. Just share some thoughts.
Yah, I agree.
Lionel, How about we define the queue as union { __u32 queue_idx; __u64 rsvd; }
If required, we can extend by expanding the 'rsvd' field to <ctx_id, queue_idx> later with a flag.
Niranjana
I did not really understand Oak's comment nor what you're suggesting here to be honest.
First the GEM context is already exposed to userspace. It's explicitly created by userpace with DRM_IOCTL_I915_GEM_CONTEXT_CREATE.
We give the GEM context id in every execbuffer we do with drm_i915_gem_execbuffer2::rsvd1.
It's still in the new execbuffer3 proposal being discussed.
Second, the GEM context is also where we set the VM with I915_CONTEXT_PARAM_VM.
Third, the GEM context also has the list of engines with I915_CONTEXT_PARAM_ENGINES.
Yes, the execbuf and engine map creation are tied to gem_context. (which probably is not the best interface.)
So it makes sense to me to dispatch the vm_bind operation to a GEM context, to a given vm_bind queue, because it's got all the information required :
- the list of new vm_bind queues
- the vm that is going to be modified
But the operation is performed here on the address space (VM) which can have multiple gem_contexts referring to it. So, VM is the right interface here. We need not 'gem_context'ify it.
All we need is multiple queue support for the address space (VM). Going to gem_context for that just because we have engine creation support there seems unnecessay and not correct to me.
Otherwise where do the vm_bind queues live?
In the i915/drm fd object?
That would mean that all the GEM contexts are sharing the same vm_bind queues.
Not all, only the gem contexts that are using the same address space (VM). But to me the right way to describe would be that "VM will be using those queues".
I hope by "queue" here you mean a HW resource that will be later used to execute the job, for example a ccs compute engine. Of course queue can be virtual so user can create more queues than what hw physically has.
To express the concept of "VM will be using those queues", I think it make sense to have create_queue(vm) function taking a vm parameter. This means this queue is created for the purpose of submit job under this VM. Later on, we can submit job (referring to objects vm_bound to the same vm) to the queue. The vm_bind ioctl doesn’t need to have queue parameter, just vm_bind (object, va, vm).
I hope the "queue" here is not the engine used to perform the vm_bind operation itself. But if you meant a queue/engine to perform vm_bind itself (vs a queue/engine for later job submission), then we can discuss more. I know xe driver have similar concept and I think align the design early can benefit the migration to xe driver.
Regards, Oak
Niranjana
intel_context or GuC are internal details we're not concerned about.
I don't really see the connection with the GEM context.
Maybe Oak has a different use case than Vulkan.
-Lionel
Regards, Oak
Niranjana
>I think the interface is clean as a interface to VM. It is
only that we
>don't have a clean way to create a raw VM_BIND engine (not >associated with >any context) with i915 uapi. >May be we can add such an interface, but I don't think that is
worth it
>(we might as well just use a queue_idx in VM_BIND/UNBIND ioctl as I >mentioned >above). >Anyone has any thoughts? > >> >>>Another problem is, if two VMs are binding with the same defined >>>engine, >>>binding on VM1 can get unnecessary blocked by binding on VM2 >>>(which may be >>>waiting on its in_fence). >> >> >>Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you have 2 vm objects >>with a single gem_context right now? >> > >No, we don't have 2 VMs for a gem_context. >Say if ctx1 with vm1 and ctx2 with vm2. >First vm_bind call was for vm1 with q_idx 1 in ctx1 engine map. >Second vm_bind call was for vm2 with q_idx 2 in ctx2 engine map. If >those two queue indicies points to same underlying vm_bind engine, >then the second vm_bind call gets blocked until the first
vm_bind call's
>'in' fence is triggered and bind completes. > >With per VM queues, this is not a problem as two VMs will not endup >sharing same queue. > >BTW, I just posted a updated PATCH series. >https://www.spinics.net/lists/dri-devel/msg350483.html > >Niranjana > >> >>> >>>So, my preference here is to just add a 'u32 queue' index in >>>vm_bind/unbind >>>ioctl, and the queues are per VM. >>> >>>Niranjana >>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -Lionel >>>> >>>> >>>> Niranjana >>>> >>>> >Regards, >>>> > >>>> >Tvrtko >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>Niranjana >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> I am trying to see how many queues we need and >>>>don't want it to >>>> be >>>> >>>> arbitrarily >>>> >>>> large and unduely blow up memory usage and >>>>complexity in i915 >>>> driver. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I expect a Vulkan driver to use at most 2 in the >>>>vast majority >>>> >>>>of cases. I >>>> >>>> could imagine a client wanting to create more
than 1 sparse
>>>> >>>>queue in which >>>> >>>> case, it'll be N+1 but that's unlikely. As far as >>>>complexity >>>> >>>>goes, once >>>> >>>> you allow two, I don't think the complexity is
going up by
>>>> >>>>allowing N. As >>>> >>>> for memory usage, creating more queues means more >>>>memory. That's >>>> a >>>> >>>> trade-off that userspace can make. Again, the >>>>expected number >>>> >>>>here is 1 >>>> >>>> or 2 in the vast majority of cases so I don't think >>>>you need to >>>> worry. >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Ok, will start with n=3 meaning 8 queues. >>>> >>>That would require us create 8 workqueues. >>>> >>>We can change 'n' later if required. >>>> >>> >>>> >>>Niranjana >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > Why? Because Vulkan has two basic kind of bind >>>> >>>>operations and we >>>> >>>> don't >>>> >>>> > want any dependencies between them: >>>> >>>> > 1. Immediate. These happen right after BO >>>>creation or >>>> >>>>maybe as >>>> >>>> part of >>>> >>>> > vkBindImageMemory() or
VkBindBufferMemory(). These
>>>> >>>>don't happen >>>> >>>> on a >>>> >>>> > queue and we don't want them serialized >>>>with anything. To >>>> >>>> synchronize >>>> >>>> > with submit, we'll have a syncobj in the >>>>VkDevice which >>>> is >>>> >>>> signaled by >>>> >>>> > all immediate bind operations and make >>>>submits wait on >>>> it. >>>> >>>> > 2. Queued (sparse): These happen on a >>>>VkQueue which may >>>> be the >>>> >>>> same as >>>> >>>> > a render/compute queue or may be its own >>>>queue. It's up >>>> to us >>>> >>>> what we >>>> >>>> > want to advertise. From the Vulkan API >>>>PoV, this is like >>>> any >>>> >>>> other >>>> >>>> > queue. Operations on it wait on and signal >>>>semaphores. If we >>>> >>>> have a >>>> >>>> > VM_BIND engine, we'd provide syncobjs to
wait and
>>>> >>>>signal just like >>>> >>>> we do >>>> >>>> > in execbuf(). >>>> >>>> > The important thing is that we don't want >>>>one type of >>>> >>>>operation to >>>> >>>> block >>>> >>>> > on the other. If immediate binds are >>>>blocking on sparse >>>> binds, >>>> >>>> it's >>>> >>>> > going to cause over-synchronization issues. >>>> >>>> > In terms of the internal implementation, I >>>>know that >>>> >>>>there's going >>>> >>>> to be >>>> >>>> > a lock on the VM and that we can't actually >>>>do these >>>> things in >>>> >>>> > parallel. That's fine. Once the dma_fences have >>>> signaled and >>>> >>>> we're >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thats correct. It is like a single VM_BIND
engine with
>>>> >>>>multiple queues >>>> >>>> feeding to it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Right. As long as the queues themselves are >>>>independent and >>>> >>>>can block on >>>> >>>> dma_fences without holding up other queues, I think >>>>we're fine. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > unblocked to do the bind operation, I don't care if >>>> >>>>there's a bit >>>> >>>> of >>>> >>>> > synchronization due to locking. That's >>>>expected. What >>>> >>>>we can't >>>> >>>> afford >>>> >>>> > to have is an immediate bind operation >>>>suddenly blocking >>>> on a >>>> >>>> sparse >>>> >>>> > operation which is blocked on a compute job >>>>that's going >>>> to run >>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> > another 5ms. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As the VM_BIND queue is per VM, VM_BIND on one
VM
>>>>doesn't block >>>> the >>>> >>>> VM_BIND >>>> >>>> on other VMs. I am not sure about usecases
here, but just
>>>> wanted to >>>> >>>> clarify. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, that's what I would expect. >>>> >>>> --Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Niranjana >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > For reference, Windows solves this by allowing >>>> arbitrarily many >>>> >>>> paging >>>> >>>> > queues (what they call a VM_BIND >>>>engine/queue). That >>>> >>>>design works >>>> >>>> > pretty well and solves the problems in >>>>question. >>>>Again, we could >>>> >>>> just >>>> >>>> > make everything out-of-order and require >>>>using syncobjs >>>> >>>>to order >>>> >>>> things >>>> >>>> > as userspace wants. That'd be fine too. >>>> >>>> > One more note while I'm here: danvet said >>>>something on >>>> >>>>IRC about >>>> >>>> VM_BIND >>>> >>>> > queues waiting for syncobjs to >>>>materialize. We don't >>>> really >>>> >>>> want/need >>>> >>>> > this. We already have all the machinery in >>>>userspace to >>>> handle >>>> >>>> > wait-before-signal and waiting for syncobj >>>>fences to >>>> >>>>materialize >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> > that machinery is on by default. It
would actually
>>>> >>>>take MORE work >>>> >>>> in >>>> >>>> > Mesa to turn it off and take advantage of >>>>the kernel >>>> >>>>being able to >>>> >>>> wait >>>> >>>> > for syncobjs to materialize. Also, getting >>>>that right is >>>> >>>> ridiculously >>>> >>>> > hard and I really don't want to get it >>>>wrong in kernel >>>> >>>>space. �� When we >>>> >>>> > do memory fences, wait-before-signal will >>>>be a thing. We >>>> don't >>>> >>>> need to >>>> >>>> > try and make it a thing for syncobj. >>>> >>>> > --Jason >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > Thanks Jason, >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > I missed the bit in the Vulkan spec that >>>>we're allowed to >>>> have a >>>> >>>> sparse >>>> >>>> > queue that does not implement either graphics >>>>or compute >>>> >>>>operations >>>> >>>> : >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > "While some implementations may include >>>> >>>> VK_QUEUE_SPARSE_BINDING_BIT >>>> >>>> > support in queue families that also include >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > graphics and compute support, other >>>>implementations may >>>> only >>>> >>>> expose a >>>> >>>> > VK_QUEUE_SPARSE_BINDING_BIT-only queue >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > family." >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > So it can all be all a vm_bind engine that
just does
>>>> bind/unbind >>>> >>>> > operations. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > But yes we need another engine for the >>>>immediate/non-sparse >>>> >>>> operations. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > -Lionel >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > Daniel, any thoughts? >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > Niranjana >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >Matt >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> Sorry I noticed this late. >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> -Lionel >>>> >>>> > >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>