[Clipart] found this while surfing

[chovynz]

All good thoughts

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 7:30 AM, Nathan Eady <eady at galion.lib.oh.us> wrote:

> > On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 9:17 AM, jon at rejon.org <jon at rejon.org> wrote:
> >
> >> btw, we should not be naive either...there are ppl who will try to
> >> submit bad stuff in order to create problems too....delete delete
> >> delete!
>
> chovynz <chovynz at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > There's no delete function yet. And Bassel is not convinced we
> > should delete records either.
>
> Barring receipt of an actual DMCA take-down notice (or a serious
> disk-space shortage), I would not be in favor of irrevocable deletion
> as such.  The mere existence of that kind of delete functionality in
> the web UI would pretty much guarantee accidental deletion of wanted
> materials, and there is also the potential for deliberate abuse.  It's
> just not a good idea.  If we have a special case where real deletion
> becomes really actually necessary, someone with a shell acount can do
> it by hand, but that may *never* be needed, and it certainly won't be
> needed on a day-to-day basis.
>

We got a DMCA takedown a few days ago that I dealt with privately, off list.
It was a legit notice. I've asked the user to delete the clipart from their
clipart management page, since librarians don't have a way to delete it. I
can name a number of cliparts that shouldn't be on the library collection at
all.

I understand there is a potential for abuse. I'm just saying, in the course
of my librarian duties, I've come across many clipart that violate copyright
(and there is no way that MS will ever allow their logos into the public
domain), that are not suitable for OCAL. Our hide function only stops it
from being searched for and displayed in results, but anyone with a bit of
intelligence can find the direct links.

To my mind that means we are still providing copyrighted material, which is
not something I want OCAL to do.

If we did have a delete function, I think we also need to setup a deletion
review process. Maybe something like, 4 librarians need to veto the deletion
of clipart marked for delete or something? It would have to be hardcoded so
that no one librarian can just delete something, but maybe something like 4
checkboxes (that each librarian only has access to one checkbox, but can see
the others results?). Then of course, the system needs to record the actions
and responses too, to be able to action something.

Or maybe, one person can have delete "powers" but only deletes clipart that
have passed the deletion process (whatever that may be). Much like a judge
in a democratic society. The judge doesn't actually determine guilt or
innocence, they only action what the jury has determined.

Most clipart wouldn't even be touched by this, but I really do think we need
a better system than what we currently have, which is a superficial
"hiding".


> I am, however, very definitely in favor of marking them pd_issue and
> copyright or trademark or whatever and hiding them so they don't turn
> up in search results, if we have any reason to believe they are not
> legitimately in the public domain.  I do this whenever I notice them.
> (I think I did this to several versions of the Debian logo a week or
> two ago.)
>
> That way, if we later discover we were mistaken about any image, or if
> we nixed the wrong one, or if the three-thousand-and-ninety-third
> person who uploads Tux turns out to actually be Larry Ewing and he's
> really intending to release it into the PD, or whatever...  the tags
> and so forth can be easily undone, no harm no foul.  The ability to
> undo is good.
>

Hehe, that made me chuckle. You really do know what it's like to be a
librarian, lol.

These are good first steps, but what about the
three-thousand-and-ninety-second images of Tux that are needlessly taking up
space, and cluttering up the librarians back end? Until Larry does release
Tux into the PD, those other Tux'es aren't supposed to be on the library at
all. Do you want to sort through 3092+ hidden cliparts that just repeat the
same things over and over?

Is there some way we can make the librarians job easier, when this site is
even bigger? I'm one for lean processing. I don't like magpie syndrome.

Many of these education and copyright issues would be more easily fixed with
a working email functionality. I need some of Bassels time. Or someone needs
to make it.


>
> Also, assuming the software tracks who does what, any deliberate abuse
> that should arise can be dealt with.  (Everything they do can be
> straightforwardly reversed, and since only people who have been made
> librarians can do this stuff, a user whose account is suspended for
> such abuses cannot just easily create a fresh account and keep redoing
> it.  They would have to convince someone to make their new account a
> librarian, _each_ time an account is suspended.)
>
Yeah that's a problem. Bassel started on a tracker (for the admin panel) but
I don't believe that it does nearly enough, or has near enough information
to be able to undo things.

At the moment OCAL itself has no tracker. And have niether the time nor
inclination to make one, so until someone makes one, we have nothing to see
what people are doing. Not to mention we need email capability, since 6
months ago.


> And yeah, if there's a particular user and we have to keep repeatedly
> explaining what PD means to him and he never gets it and keeps
> uploading non-PD material, there are ways to deal with that too.  If
> it becomes a sufficiently serious problem, newly created accounts
> could be marked automatically with some flag, and newly uploaded
> clipart by such authors could be automatically flagged as pending
> review until a librarian takes a look at it and takes off the flag;
> when a librarian notices that a given user has consistently uploaded
> original or genuinely-PD content, their "needs-review" flag could be
> taken off.  If the user later _develops_ a discernment problem, the
> flag could be put back.  Hopefully we won't need to go quite as far as
> all that, but even if we do, it should still be possible to handle it
> all without an irreversable-nuke button, IMO.
>

Side-topic: I'd love to have all new clipart automatically marked as
"unchecked" like before. But again, I don't know how to do so. If bassel or
someone could walk me through I could do something.


> --
> Nathan Eady
> Galion Public Library
> _______________________________________________
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> clipart at lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart
>



-- 
Cheers
Chovynz
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