[Clipart] openclipart 3.2, bugs, features and changelogs

shirish शिरीष shirishag75 at gmail.com
Wed Mar 14 16:12:25 PDT 2012 

in-line :-

2012/3/15 Jakub Jankiewicz <jcubic at onet.pl>:
> Hi shirish

Hi Jakub,

> On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:44:40 +0530
> shirish शिरीष <shirishag75 at gmail.com> wrote:

> OCAL it's more like community of artist that use the site to connect
> create remix and share clipart and other users that may use that work.
>
> And generally there is more focus on the site and creating of packages
> was dropped.

ok.

>>
>> Finally though, there was a release today in Debian and came to know
>> you guys are still good and around :)
>
> I didn't know about Debian packages don't know which version of ocal it
> use, if they download all new clipart or what.
>
>>
>> $ aptitude show openclipart-png
>> Package: openclipart-png
>> State: installed
>> Automatically installed: yes
>> Version: 2.0-1
>> Priority: extra
>> Section: graphics
>> Maintainer: Martin Kelly <aomighty at gmail.com>
>> Uncompressed Size: 655 M
>> Suggests: gimp
>> Conflicts: openclipart (< 0.10+dfsg-3)
>> Description: clip art in PNG format
>> The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
>> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any
>> purpose.
>>
>>  This package contains the images in Portable Network Graphics (PNG)
>> format. Homepage: http://www.openclipart.org
>
> Shit, another www site, we need to get rid of this url, the proper url
> is http://openclipart.org
>
>>
>> Tags: made-of::icons, role::app-data
>>
>> $ aptitude show openclipart-png=0.18+dfsg-12
>> Package: openclipart-png
>> State: not installed
>> Automatically installed: yes
>> Version: 0.18+dfsg-12
>> Priority: extra
>> Section: graphics
>> Maintainer: Debian QA Group <packages at qa.debian.org>
>> Uncompressed Size: 203 M
>> Suggests: gimp
>> Conflicts: openclipart (< 0.10+dfsg-3)
>> Description: clip art in PNG format
>>  The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
>> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any
>> purpose.
>>
>> This package contains the images in Portable Network Graphics (PNG)
>> format. Homepage: http://www.openclipart.org
>>
>> Tags: made-of::icons, role::app-data
>>
>> As can be seen the packages have tripled in size and there I see a
>> problem. There is no way for a user as far I can tell to know which
>> images are new and which images are from the previous release.
>
> this is not the OCAL problem but debian package that use clipart from
> OCAL one if you want to know which one is new create a program that will
> show new clipart
>

Ok, then please pray tell me who is responsible for these two links :-

ftp://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/openclipart/downloads/

and

http://openclipart.org/downloads/2.0/openclipart-2.0-full.zip

http://openclipart.org/downloads/0.19/openclipart-0.19.zip

This is from where the Debian maintainer just copied the archive. They
don't add anything to it afaik.

I do see know that rejon did make a changelog ... sigh...

2009-03-01  Jon Phillips  <jon at rejon.org>

        * *: imported all into packager/trunk in public SVN repository.
        * VERSION: updated version to the latest!

2005-11-12  Jon Phillips  <jon at rejon.org>

        * openclipart.7.gz: Added man page for the project.

        * VERSION: Updated to 0.18CVS.

I don't think a full-fledged program would have been required. Even if
a simple diff by using cmptree [1] would have been used and the output
shared as a listing that would have been enough to know what has been
added or/and changed in the new collection or/and package .

1. http://drdobbs.com/199103123

>> what I mean is, while OCAL (openclipart library) is and can be used
>> almost anywhere, MOST (not all) people might use it to spice their
>> presentations.
>>
>> And therein lies number of problems. Now most of them are about a
>> release around a year or two old so might or might not be relevant.
>>
>> a. There is no browser :- While I could use some third-party image
>> browser like eog or/and something else it is difficult to traverse.
>> While in the short-term I don't think you guys could afford to think
>> of some sort of browser or something but maybe something to think
>> about in the medium term. I am thinking something which is specific to
>> openclipart and the cliparts within (maybe it could be used to see
>> comments if you are online or/and give feedback or something from
>> within the image browser interface without using a real browser as
>> well as connecting or/and learning something about the artist as well
>> - his motivations and contact details perhaps .) Maybe people can look
>> at opengameart.org and sort of collaborate and see if something can be
>> spinned, don't know just an idea.
>
> if you don't like to use the browser write "ocal image viewer" using our
> API, I think that inskcape use similar function, you can add detail of
> the clipart, and proper "traverse".

hmm... not a programmer but definitely can give a shout about that.

> You can also tell that to people that maintain the package. We are not
> maintainers of the debian and other packages we are working on the site.

True as well. Maybe ask people within the community also. Who knows.

>> b. openclipart-libreoffice :- In fact one of the ways if
>> openclipart-libreoffice is used then you can watch it within
>> libreoffice > Tools > Gallery although the gallery itself leaves much
>> to be desired. The info. about the package shows openclipart homepage
>> so guess you are the guys maintaining that extension/add-on for
>> libreoffice. Is there a roadmap for the next release of the tool, I
>> may have some some ideas or maybe just take a look at what's cooking.
>
> AFAIK OCAL do not work on any packages that use clipart like debian,
> they are, most likely, created by people that maintain the package.

ok, although I do see that openclipart and libreoffice combo are
almost on all distributions.

See for instance :-

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3?stat=3&search=libreoffice-openclipart&srodzaj=3&dist[]=17

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/17689641/dir/mandrake_other/com/libreoffice-openclipart-3.4.5-1-mdv2012.0.i586.rpm.html

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=libreoffice-openclipart&project=LibreOffice%3AUnstable


>> c. Naming :- The biggest problem I found while going through the
>> collections is the naming, rather than naming the collections from
>> functional or descriptive point of view they are named
>> contributor-wise. This is horrible waste of the user's time as he's
>> not going to crawl through the whole archive to look for an image
>> which he knows about but cannot find in the current scenario. Maybe
>> tagging and some sort of interface to search (maybe ties with a.)
>
> Do you talk about the site or those packages? Packages are created by
> people that have nothing to do this OCAL AFAIKT they are normal users,
> they donwload clipart and create a package.

As said before they just download the package/collection which is
already there and try to make it easy just so users don't have do it.

All the clipart on my system for e.g. resides on

/usr/share/openclipart/png and this is a listing it is showing something like :-

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 00Inkscape
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 1in9ui5t
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 43ad5web
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 aaha
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 abadr
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root   4096 2012-03-14 22:19 abraxasWD

Now these are just for informational purposes only.

Now lemme get into one of these directories.
/usr/share/openclipart/png/00Inkscape$ ls
00Inkscape_skull_corneum.png

Ah so this directory has a skull .

What I am thinking about is instead of having names and directories
under those names it would have been nicer/better if the names were
something like

'death' which showcases all the symbols which have the meaning of dead
or something related to that. I know it would be hard because perhaps
some sort of folksonomy or something would have to be defined or taken
from somewhere but it would be good.

>> d.Changelog :- From the package sizes I was able to infer that there
>> is new material but because of an absence of changelog I was unable to
>> know what new categories or ideas have made in this release. Maybe
>> some sort of changelog could be thought about. I know that while
>> having changelogs made when people code in a VCS is trivial maybe
>> something similar could be done when new collections are released
>> (don't know). Either way more information would be good.
>
> So it seams that they are new once, it's good.

Shouldn't the 2.0 release have 1.8 release+  new stuff done by artists
in the interim. My goal as before is to know and see the new stuff.

>> e. In many cases it is also painful to figure out who the author is
>> and what (if any) contact details of the artist are.
>
> there will be no way to handle this ocal packages is usage of clipart
> that are in Public Domain, it's like cloning without attribution only
> image matter, If you want to see artist name the site is the place.

ok.

>>
>> f. libpng 0.15 :- Would the team needs to concern itself with the new
>> libpng library in anyway ? http://libpng.org/pub/png/libpng.html
>>
>> I do know that at least debian is gonna do a huge libpng transition
>> pretty soon which will translate to other debian-derivatives as well.
>>
>> http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/libpng1.5.html
>>
>> g. While I did see a donate button, I didn't see a donate page. It
>> might be a good idea to put up a donate page and actually put some
>> sort of price to some of the higher priority features . I know that
>> the idea is to remain non-profit but having something for people to
>> shoot for is perhaps good for the short-term as well as long-term.
>> Maybe something can be worked out for both the developers who are
>> working behind it as well as the artist.
>
> Good idea about money for the feature. I had idea about progress bar
> like on pledgie.com have and attribution, maybe it will be implemented
> in the future.

cool.

>> h. Social media :- I do see there has been some sort of half-hearted
>> attempt to use twitter but perhaps having diaspora would be better as
>> much of the audience within diaspora (http://joindiaspora.com) would
>> be welcoming about openclipart and maybe be of help in developing
>> somethings.
>
> We want to make OCAL more Social there is this blueprint you can add
> your comments and ideas, like diaspora support (the same as for other
> blueprints) I never use it myself, I heard that name once.
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openclipart/+spec/ocal-social
> there are lots of planes for OCAL that we will implement step by step.

ok will do that.

> For now all clipart are send to Facebook twitter and G+ (not sure about
> that).
>
>>
>> Overall while its good that such a resource like OCAL is there and you
>> have ideas of putting new release, it sad in someways to see such a
>> wonderful not being able to use in the most optimum way.
>>
>> Btw I did not talk about svg port simply for the fact that its double
>> the size.
>
> But you have higher resolution - infinite one.
>
         true :)

>> $ aptitude show openclipart-svg
>> Package: openclipart-svg
>> State: not installed
>> Version: 2.0-1
>> Priority: extra
>> Section: graphics
>> Maintainer: Martin Kelly <aomighty at gmail.com>
>> Uncompressed Size: 1,107 M
>> Recommends: librsvg2-bin
>> Suggests: ksvg, gimp-svg, inkscape, sodipodi, sketch
>> Conflicts: openclipart (< 0.10+dfsg-3)
>> Description: clip art in SVG format
>>  The Open Clip Art Library is a collection of 100% license-free,
>> royalty-free, and restriction-free art that you can use for any
>> purpose.
>>
>>  This package contains the images in Scalable Vector Graphic (SVG)
>> format, which is an XML format approved by the W3C.
>> Homepage: http://www.openclipart.org
>>
>> Tags: made-of::icons, made-of::svg, role::app-data
>>
>> I do know though that there are benefits of SVG vs PNG as well.
>>
>> Now I could have probably put up some tickets on launchpad but didn't
>> know if all of this makes sense or not. Maybe its better to shoot the
>> breeze atm and if people see something worthwhile then will put up the
>> tickets.
>
> As I said before check all blueprints and put your ideas there, if you
> find something that there is not there you can create blueprint.

ok will do.

>>
>> Till l8er.
>
> --
> Jakub Jankiewicz
> twitter: @jcubic
> www: http://jcubic.pl

-- 
          Regards,
          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
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