Release:auth.wikimedia.org-xorg-znc.utr Digest, Vol 239, ing=b=3dX

Tue Jul 8 15:02:32 UTC 2025

  ^.ext-iotyHome'pessl.ms&rdeb16.25.       iahnN
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On Mon, Jul 7, 2025, 2:00 AM <xorg-request at lists.x.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Does xquartz require root privileges to run on MacOS? (Nick)
>    2. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (Vladimir Dergachev)
>    3. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (gene heskett)
>    4. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (Vladimir Dergachev)
>    5. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (gene heskett)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 17:07:51 -0400
> From: Nick <atod101101 at gmail.com>
> To: xorg at lists.x.org
> Subject: Does xquartz require root privileges to run on MacOS?
> Message-ID:
>         <CAG9BPSX1DWbZEuNC3BU-Fi6tAX649=uQpEykJN1P+QA=Da=
> 6GA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I'm looking at xinit code here at the launcherd portions:
> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/xinit
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 18:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Vladimir Dergachev <volodya at mindspring.com>
> To: gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
> Cc: xorg at lists.x.org
> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.22.394.2507061841050.52313 at iridium>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>
>
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote:
>
> > On 7/5/25 01:32, Vladimir Dergachev wrote:
> >> There are many developers having fun with Xorg. Some on the list, some
> not,
> >> some will reply to you, some not.
> >>
> >> There might be some that are employed to work on Xorg. In USA that
> usually
> >> means two weeks notice, so that is the total extent of the "commitment".
> >> If they have to switch to a new job it will likely displace any open
> source
> >> contributions for at least a month.
> >>
> >> People having fun produce good code. Don't mess with it.
> >>
> >> best
> >>
> >> Vladimir Dergachev
> > Rant on:
> >
> > And this, Vladimir, is the clearest, most concise description of the
> problem
> > I have seen.? My path thru life has been that of keeping a television
> station
> > on the air and profitable. Along that line I have coded up a couple
> projects
> > on "company" time. Projects the station needed but no one sold. So I
> bought
> > the hardware and wrote the code.? Then sold them the hardware.? ?Code
> that
> > turned out to so handy it was used for decades.
>
> Nice!
>
> > That is/was unheard of,
> > control room hardware gets replaced by competitive pressure or
> mechanical
> > wear out years before the tax write off is complete. TV news people are
> hell
> > on hardware, but get the story regardless. But as quick as I could get
> the
> > parts, they got the busted ($7500 to repair)?camera back to go wreck
> them
> > again. Now I'm 90 and 23 years retired and it would take me the rest of
> my
> > life to wrap my head around a quarter of the code xorg maintains.
>
> No problem then:)
>
> You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most of
> xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack of support
> for
> newer cards.
>
> This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan
> explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have their
> own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel interfaces.
>
> So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that does
> the same.
>
> best
>
> Vladimir Dergachev
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 20:40:58 -0400
> From: gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
> To: xorg at lists.x.org
> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg
> Message-ID: <0ec984e9-2cbc-4f66-9647-23cef32f279c at shentel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> On 7/6/25 18:46, Vladimir Dergachev wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 5 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/5/25 01:32, Vladimir Dergachev wrote:
> >>> There are many developers having fun with Xorg. Some on the list,
> >>> some not, some will reply to you, some not.
> >>>
> >>> There might be some that are employed to work on Xorg. In USA that
> >>> usually means two weeks notice, so that is the total extent of the
> >>> "commitment".
> >>> If they have to switch to a new job it will likely displace any open
> >>> source contributions for at least a month.
> >>>
> >>> People having fun produce good code. Don't mess with it.
> And you are obviously much closer to that code than I will ever be,
> given my remaining time on this ball? of rock and water. But why can't I
> run synaptic from a shell?
> >>>
> >>> best
> >>>
> >>> Vladimir Dergachev
> >> Rant on:
> >>
> >> And this, Vladimir, is the clearest, most concise description of the
> >> problem I have seen.? My path thru life has been that of keeping a
> >> television station on the air and profitable. Along that line I have
> >> coded up a couple projects on "company" time. Projects the station
> >> needed but no one sold. So I bought the hardware and wrote the code.?
> >> Then sold them the hardware. ?Code that turned out to so handy it was
> >> used for decades.
> >
> > Nice!
> >
> >> That is/was unheard of, control room hardware gets replaced by
> >> competitive pressure or mechanical wear out years before the tax
> >> write off is complete. TV news people are hell on hardware, but get
> >> the story regardless. But as quick as I could get the parts, they got
> >> the busted ($7500 to repair)?camera back to go wreck them again. Now
> >> I'm 90 and 23 years retired and it would take me the rest of my life
> >> to wrap my head around a quarter of the code xorg maintains.
> >
> > No problem then:)
> >
> > You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most
> > of xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack of
> > support for newer cards.
> >
> > This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan
> > explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have
> > their own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel
> > interfaces.
> >
> > So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that
> > does the same.
> When debian switched I thought it was good, but years later I am still
> stuck with NON GUI apt to stay current with the rest of the system. Why
> can't I have a gui like synaptic so I can see whats available BEFORE I
> install it?
> > best
> Back at you.
> > Vladimir Dergachev
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
>
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2025 00:05:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Vladimir Dergachev <volodya at mindspring.com>
> To: gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
> Cc: xorg at lists.x.org
> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.22.394.2507070002010.52313 at iridium>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote:
>
> >>
> >> No problem then:)
> >>
> >> You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most of
> >> xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack of
> support
> >> for newer cards.
> >>
> >> This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan
> >> explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have
> their
> >> own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel interfaces.
> >>
> >> So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that
> does
> >> the same.
> > When debian switched I thought it was good, but years later I am still
> stuck
> > with NON GUI apt to stay current with the rest of the system. Why can't
> I
> > have a gui like synaptic so I can see whats available BEFORE I install
> it?
> >> best
>
> With KDE (kubuntu) there is "Discover" package manager that runs from
> user space. It asks you for root password before you install.
>
> I actually thought that's how synaptic worked as well, but maybe I forget.
>
> Starting X apps as another user will not work unless you share your
> Xauthority file or disable that.
>
> best
>
> Vladimir Dergachev
>
> > Back at you.
> >> Vladimir Dergachev
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
> >
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> > - Louis D. Brandeis
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2025 02:02:11 -0400
> From: gene heskett <gheskett at shentel.net>
> To: xorg at lists.x.org
> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg
> Message-ID: <211e5be9-bac6-4928-9da6-488114844a62 at shentel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> On 7/7/25 00:05, Vladimir Dergachev wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> No problem then:)
> >>>
> >>> You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most
> >>> of xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack
> >>> of support for newer cards.
> >>>
> >>> This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan
> >>> explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have
> >>> their own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel
> >>> interfaces.
> >>>
> >>> So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that
> >>> does the same.
> >> When debian switched I thought it was good, but years later I am
> >> still stuck with NON GUI apt to stay current with the rest of the
> >> system. Why can't I have a gui like synaptic so I can see whats
> >> available BEFORE I install it?
> >>> best
> >
> > With KDE (kubuntu) there is "Discover" package manager that runs from
> > user space. It asks you for root password before you install.
> >
> > I actually thought that's how synaptic worked as well, but maybe I
> > forget.
> >
> > Starting X apps as another user will not work unless you share your
> > Xauthority file or disable that.
>
> I thank you for your interest.
>
> Disable?
>
> How?
>
> I'm the only user, and I can sudo anything else UNTIL I try to run
> synaptic from a shell. Its available in the bookworm menu's and ask's me
> for my usr pw and then runs ok on Wayland. But running it directly from
> a shell with sudo is denied with a snotty msg I assume comes from some
> non gui app that has yet to reveal its identity.? Using the mouse to
> activate the menu is frustrating because the mouse, despite being
> programmed for 1 pixel which should make it slow, actually moves 20 or
> more pixels just for hovering my hand above it, true with every mouse,
> mostly logitek M325's, that I have, making it damned near impossible to
> actually click on the correct name in the menu's gui.? copy/paste
> opertions have to be undone and re-pasted several times to get it right.
> It has moved the pointer enough to miss the name by up to 4 names. And
> this bullet-like speed mouse seems not to be debian related, I'm running
> 3 3d printers with armbian, jammy is usable but nobel is spastic often
> refusing to redraw the mouse and all 3 with suitable mice, can move the
> pointer over all of a 27" monitors with under 2" of mouse motion. I am
> considering redoing the whole front end using jammy only.
>
> I also run 4 metal carving machines with linuxcnc, all running Wheezy as
> its taken years to get linuxcnc running with python3. Those are also
> using the logitek M325 mouse but on Wheezy they are good. I'm on
> speaking terms with OpenSCAD.
>
> > best
>
> Thank you Vladimir Dergachev
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET
>
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of xorg Digest, Vol 239, Issue 3
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