No subject
Sat Oct 20 05:13:46 PDT 2007
Its really a matter of developing an intuitive method of interaction with t=
he environment. Its very feasible and something that is easily realised. =
The methods are tried and tested in games systems, 3D editors and even 3D f=
ile managers. Thus, there are no new technical aspects, its merely the pac=
kaging of those features into a desktop interface. The business applicatio=
ns can be helpful if used properly, however, the biggest usage will be the =
domestic home user. The concept of a public desktop space (or virtual room=
), that can be shared across the Internet, will add to social networking mo=
del. It will also lead to new paradigms in terms of web interaction, navig=
ation and information exchange. One other major benefit will be the promot=
ion of both X and the Linux platform in general. To use these new features=
, end user's Operating Systems will need to be compatible with X. Whilst I=
'm sure limited interfaces could be designed for Windows desktops, it will =
function a lot better as a native Linux user. There is a chance here to le=
ave the competing Operating Systems for dust and to force their hand in ter=
ms of inter-operability.Carpe diem.
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:02:47 -0400From: vperetokin at gmail.comTo: markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.comSubject: Re: [compiz] Feature RequestCC: srhlefty at gmail=
.com ; compiz at lists.freedesktop.org=20
I had a similar idea, but I think they said it wasn't too feasible much on =
the forums. Why do you capitalize "window" though?I really like your busine=
ss applications for this - they really do sound very good. This'll be excel=
lent.=20
On 10/19/07, Mark McCarron <markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com> wrote:=20
Good questions. I have a few suggestions that may help, I'm sure the Compi=
z developers will be able to structure the controls much better. So, take =
this as a basis from which to begin. There would be two basic modes, the fi=
rst mode would be free space, that is, your mouse guides you through the de=
sktop space. Upon selecting a window, you would enter the second mode, the=
mouse controls would now act upon the selected Window. A simple left-clic=
k in free space would return the user to the first mode. I would expect th=
e user to be able walk around the environment similar to any FPS. Movement=
can either be provided by a mouse click providing acceleration, or via key=
board controls again similar to any FPS. As windows are objects, perhaps t=
hey should have a small control on the border of the windows that can be ma=
nipulated by the mouse. This control would allow the user to alter each of=
dimensions independently. A small clickable X,Y,Z object would work well.=
This control could be expanded to allow for rotation and scaling of the o=
bject. A quick switch utility is something that is definitely required. W=
hilst the freedom aspect is good, the desktop must provide a productive env=
ironment. I like the wall utility too, I find it very handy. I would expe=
ct this to look at the space from above and provide the user with a sense o=
f where each window is located as well as a bitmap preview. There should a=
lso be support for the direct loading and rendering of meshes. This is bot=
h for decoration and as a tool for work environments. Collaborative design =
work, even across multiple vendors, would become very easy. Architects wou=
ld be able to work on designs with real-time client input, car designers wo=
uld be able to work as team, etc. I'm not suggesting a full editing enviro=
nment, just a basic viewer that supports major formats. =20
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:33:58 -0700From: srhlefty at gmail.comTo: markmccarr=
on_itt at hotmail.com; compiz at lists.freedesktop.orgSubject: Re: [compiz] Featu=
re Request=20
This is an interesting idea. How would the user control how the windows mo=
ve in the depth dimension? Would the user actually "walk" around such a sp=
ace? With such a large space, how would one get to a particular window qui=
ckly, i.e. is there still a switcher?A 2D slice of such a space reminds me =
a lot of the current "Wall" plugin that compiz has, and is one of my favori=
tes.
On 10/18/07, Mark McCarron <markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com> wrote:=20
Hi Guys, I have been thinking of a new style of interface that could be add=
ed to Compiz. Essentially, rather than having a desktop, the user would be=
presented with a space in which to work. This space would be several mete=
rs wide in real terms and the user could navigate the space in a similar fa=
shion to a 3D game. Windows could be grabbed and thrown throughout the spa=
ce, providing a very large workspace. This would also allow the user to ph=
ysically arrange Windows in the space according to particular tasks or func=
tions. A simple double-click of a Window would cause it to snap into full =
2D view were the application can be worked upon. The concept of multiple d=
esktops, could be implemented as multiple spaces. Given the network transp=
arency of X, it would also allow for the concept of a public space. A publ=
ic space would be a desktop that is shared either across a LAN or Internet.=
This has both business and personal applications. In terms of business, =
it can be used for presentations, reviewing designs, etc. In terms of pers=
onal use, it would open a new area to social networking, desktop surfing. =
End users could store images, videos and a range of interactive items that =
members of the public can view or download. I realise that this can prove =
to be a bandwidth hog, but like everything in computer world, this will onl=
y improve with time and become less of an issue.=20
The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail______=
_________________________________________ compiz mailing listcompiz at lists.f=
reedesktop.orghttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz
Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with =
BackOfMyHand.com_______________________________________________ compiz mail=
ing listcompiz at lists.freedesktop.orghttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/li=
stinfo/compiz
The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail
Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with =
BackOfMyHand.com_______________________________________________compiz maili=
ng listcompiz at lists.freedesktop.orghttp://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/compiz
_________________________________________________________________
Celeb spotting =96 Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes
https://www.celebmashup.com=
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>At this point in time, I feel that generating int=
erest is good enough. If enough interest is shown, then I'm sure the =
developers would be more inclined to add it as a feature.<BR>
<BR>
My main aim here is to flesh out the idea and integrate additional suggesti=
ons made by members of the Compiz mailing list. So, feel free to thro=
w your ideas into the mix. They are more than welcome.<BR>
<BR>
As an example, in terms of behaviour, I would like to be able to grab a win=
dow's title bar, by a left click, and move my mouse forward then relea=
se to throw the window further into the desktop. This opens the possi=
bility of some nice eye-candy, such as the window bouncing, flexing and wob=
bling as it lands. Or if I collide with a window as I am moving about=
, that it would bend and flex as a result of the impact.<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR id=3DEC_stopSpelling>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:14:15 -0400<BR>From: vperetokin at gmail.com<BR>To: =
markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com<BR>Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request<BR>CC=
: srhlefty at gmail.com; compiz at lists.freedesktop.org<BR><BR>I'm really intere=
sted in this also, but unfortunately I know pretty much to nothing of 3d re=
ndering.<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEC_gmail_quote>On 10/19/07, <B class=3DEC_gmail_senderna=
me>Mark McCarron</B> <<A href=3D"mailto:markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com"> m=
arkmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3DEC_gmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>I was thinking of a black void into which objects could be placed.&nbs=
p; For example, you would be able to render an entire level of an FPS withi=
n the void and include basic collision detection. I know that a void =
will add to the overhead as both the inside and outside must be rendered.&n=
bsp; Also, most games use a form of BSP tree that only renders what is visi=
ble as a method of optimisation. <BR> <BR>I have a good sense of what =
I want to achieve in terms of visual and interaction. For example, le=
t's say you are using MySpace (or Facebook, Newsvine, etc.) and there is a =
link that will direct you to someone's public desktop. After clicking=
the link, the user will be directed away from the current window to a seam=
less transition to the the other users desktop. This depends on =
two factors, firstly a dynamic DNS entry being available for the system in =
question and it being powered on at the time. Each desktop could cont=
ain shortcuts that will lead to other desktops, so that people can surf fro=
m desktop to desktop. <BR> <BR>I would like to develop a prototype, bu=
t unfortunately I work and it leaves very little time for anything else.&nb=
sp; That's why I thought I would try to describe the interface here. =
Besides, its something that will need to integrated into the overall archit=
ecture of Compiz and that's best left to the developers. <BR><BR><BR><BR><B=
R>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:08:28 -0700<SPAN class=3Dq><BR>From: <A href=3D"m=
ailto:srhlefty at gmail.com">srhlefty at gmail.com</A><BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:m=
arkmccarron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A><BR></SPAN><SP=
AN class=3Dq>Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request<BR></SPAN>CC: <A href=3D=
"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.freedesktop.org</A>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEC_e id=3DEC_q_115bb8f4ded7c2d1_4><BR><BR>I agree that i=
t wouldn't be technically challenging to implement, at least the basic feat=
ures. The tricky part is definitely figuring out the best way to give=
the user control over the space. Does the space look like an FPS lev=
el, with rooms and architecture, or just a black void with windows floating=
around? <BR><BR>The more specific of a vision you have, the easier it is t=
o write code for. Figuring out <SPAN style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">wha=
t</SPAN> to do is often harder than <SPAN style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic">how<=
/SPAN> to do it. <BR><BR>If you can code in OpenGL, a good place to start i=
s to just write a standalone application with dummy blocks to represent the=
windows, and FPS movement controls. I've actually written something =
like that in the past for a different project. That would be a good s=
andbox to play with control schemes. Windows are inherently 2D, so to=
keep them from disappearing if the user is looking the wrong way I suggest=
it might be useful to map them to cubes. <BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN>On 10/19/07, <B>Mark McCarron</B> <<A href=3D"mailto:markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV><SPAN>From a technical perspective, its no more complex than Compiz al=
ready is. Its really a matter of developing an intuitive method of in=
teraction with the environment. Its very feasible and something that =
is easily realised. The methods are tried and tested in games systems=
, 3D editors and even 3D file managers. Thus, there are no&=
nbsp;new technical aspects, its merely the packaging of those features into=
a desktop interface. <BR> <BR>The business applications can be helpfu=
l if used properly, however, the biggest usage will be the domestic home us=
er. The concept of a public desktop space (or virtual room), that can=
be shared across the Internet, will add to social networking model. =
It will also lead to new paradigms in terms of web interaction, n=
avigation and information exchange. <BR> <BR>One other major benefit w=
ill be the promotion of both X and the Linux platform in general. To =
use these new features, end user's Operating Systems will need to be compat=
ible with X. Whilst I'm sure limited interfaces could be designed for=
Windows desktops, it will function a lot better as a native Linux user. <B=
R> <BR>There is a chance here to leave the competing Operating Systems=
for dust and to force their hand in terms of inter-operability.<BR><BR>Car=
pe diem.<BR><BR><BR></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN>
<HR>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:02:47 -0400<BR></SPAN>From: <A href=3D"mailto:vpe=
retokin at gmail.com">vperetokin at gmail.com</A><SPAN><BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:=
markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A><BR></SPAN><S=
PAN>Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request<BR></SPAN>CC: <A href=3D"mailto:s=
rhlefty at gmail.com">srhlefty at gmail.com </A>; <A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lists.=
freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.freedesktop.org</A>=20
<DIV><SPAN><BR><BR>I had a similar idea, but I think they said it wasn't to=
o feasible much on the forums. <BR><BR>Why do you capitalize "window" thoug=
h?<BR><BR>I really like your business applications for this - they really d=
o sound very good. This'll be excellent. <BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN>On 10/19/07, <B>Mark McCarron</B> <<A href=3D"mailto:markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>Good questions. I have a few suggestions that may help, I'm sure=
the Compiz developers will be able to structure the controls much better.&=
nbsp; So, take this as a basis from which to begin.<BR> <BR>There woul=
d be two basic modes, the first mode would be free space, that is, your mou=
se guides you through the desktop space. Upon selecting a window, you=
would enter the second mode, the mouse controls would now act upon the sel=
ected Window. A simple left-click in free space would return the user=
to the first mode. <BR> <BR>I would expect the user to be able walk a=
round the environment similar to any FPS. Movement can either be prov=
ided by a mouse click providing acceleration, or via keyboard controls agai=
n similar to any FPS.<BR> <BR>As windows are objects, perhaps they sh=
ould have a small control on the border of the windows that can be manipula=
ted by the mouse. This control would allow the user to alter each of =
dimensions independently. A small clickable X,Y,Z object would work w=
ell. This control could be expanded to allow for rotation and scaling=
of the object. <BR> <BR>A quick switch utility is something that is d=
efinitely required. Whilst the freedom aspect is good, the desktop mu=
st provide a productive environment. I like the wall utility too, I f=
ind it very handy. I would expect this to look at the space from abov=
e and provide the user with a sense of where each window is located as well=
as a bitmap preview. <BR> <BR>There should also be support for the di=
rect loading and rendering of meshes. This is both for decoration and=
as a tool for work environments. Collaborative design work, even acro=
ss multiple vendors, would become very easy. Architects would be able=
to work on designs with real-time client input, car designers would be abl=
e to work as team, etc. I'm not suggesting a full editing environment=
, just a basic viewer that supports major formats. <BR> <BR><BR><BR><B=
R><BR> <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:33:58 -0700<BR>From: <A href=3D"mailto:srhlefty at g=
mail.com">srhlefty at gmail.com</A><BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:markmccarron_itt@=
hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>; <A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lis=
ts.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.freedesktop.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: [compi=
z] Feature Request=20
<DIV><SPAN><BR><BR>This is an interesting idea. How would the user co=
ntrol how the windows move in the depth dimension? Would the user act=
ually "walk" around such a space? With such a large space, how would =
one get to a particular window quickly, i.e. is there still a switcher?<BR>=
<BR>A 2D slice of such a space reminds me a lot of the current "Wall" plugi=
n that compiz has, and is one of my favorites.<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN>On 10/18/07, <B>Mark McCarron</B> <<A href=3D"mailto:markmcca=
rron_itt at hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt at hotmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<DIV>Hi Guys,<BR> <BR>I have been thinking of a new style of interface=
that could be added to Compiz. Essentially, rather than having a des=
ktop, the user would be presented with a space in which to work. This=
space would be several meters wide in real terms and the user could naviga=
te the space in a similar fashion to a 3D game. <BR> <BR>Windows could=
be grabbed and thrown throughout the space, providing a very large workspa=
ce. This would also allow the user to physically arrange Windows in t=
he space according to particular tasks or functions. A simple double-=
click of a Window would cause it to snap into full 2D view were the applica=
tion can be worked upon. <BR> <BR>The concept of multiple desktops, co=
uld be implemented as multiple spaces. Given the network transparency=
of X, it would also allow for the concept of a public space. A publi=
c space would be a desktop that is shared either across a LAN or Internet.&=
nbsp; This has both business and personal applications. In terms of b=
usiness, it can be used for presentations, reviewing designs, etc. In=
terms of personal use, it would open a new area to social networking, desk=
top surfing. End users could store images, videos and a range of inte=
ractive items that members of the public can view or download. <BR> <B=
R>I realise that this can prove to be a bandwidth hog, but like everything =
in computer world, this will only improve with time and become less of=
an issue. <BR><SPAN><BR>
<HR>
The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - <A href=3D"http://www.newh=
otmail.co.uk/" target=3D_blank>Windows Live Hotmail</A></SPAN></DIV><SPAN><=
/SPAN><BR>_______________________________________________ <BR>compiz mailin=
g list<BR><A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.free=
desktop.org</A><BR><A href=3D"http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo=
/compiz" target=3D_blank>http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/comp=
iz</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<HR>
Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with =
<A href=3D"http://www.backofmyhand.com/" target=3D_blank>BackOfMyHand.com</=
A></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________ <BR>compiz mail=
ing list<BR><A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">compiz at lists.fr=
eedesktop.org</A><BR><A href=3D"http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listin=
fo/compiz" target=3D_blank>http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/co=
mpiz</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN><BR>
<HR>
The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - <A href=3D"http://www.newh=
otmail.co.uk/" target=3D_blank>Windows Live Hotmail</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=3DEC_e id=3DEC_q_115bb8f4ded7c2d1_6><BR>
<HR>
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A></SPAN></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR=
>compiz mailing list<BR><A href=3D"mailto:compiz at lists.freedesktop.org">com=
piz at lists.freedesktop.org</A><BR><A href=3D"http://lists.freedesktop.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/compiz" target=3D_blank>http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman=
/listinfo/compiz</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr /=
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