[avahi] General Avahi usage questions

[Linus Lüssing]

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:52:08AM -0800, Jen Chitty wrote:
> You can use the "--force-bind" option to force avahi-autoipd to ignore 
> other interface configuration (for example, configuration by DHCP client) 
> and go ahead and assign a link-local address no matter what.
> 
> Hopefully your network admin is a bit more on-the-ball than to allow a 
> bunch of uncoordinated DHCP servers on the network.  But, if you're 
> building consumer electronics products, it's probably a good idea to be 
> ready for such a thing, if possible.  Of course, there's only so much we 
> can do to deal with a network mis-configuration like that, and we must be 
> very careful not to make the problem worse with our workarounds.
Yes, sure. You guys probably know a lot better about the
side-effects of a hacky "fix" :). But thanks for the
"--force-bind", looks interesting.
Hmm, well, I think our setup looks a bit more "chaotic" - if that
might be the right word for the setup here - than a well-coordinated
network maintained by one admin :D.

Cheers, Linus
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> --Jen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linus Lüssing <linus.luessing at web.de>
> Sent by: avahi-bounces at lists.freedesktop.org
> 02/12/2010 06:54 PM
> Please respond to Avahi ML
>  
>         To:     Avahi ML <avahi at lists.freedesktop.org>
>         cc:     (bcc: Jen Chitty/ENG/VTNCAN/VTECH)
>         Subject:        Re: [avahi] General Avahi usage questions
> 
> 
> Moin moin, Lennart,
> Hi Jen,
> 
> thanks a lot for your detailed explanations so far.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:26:36PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Sat, 06.02.10 18:46, Linus Lüssing (linus.luessing at web.de) wrote:
> > 
> > > hi guys. I was looking for a way to get pidgin/libpurple working
> > > with avahi+ipv6. but then I realised, that I'm lacking some basic
> > > knowledge about avahi :)
> > > 
> > > first question: I think I remember having the avahi-daemon running
> > > which assigned an ipv4 address on a new alias interface. when does
> > > this happen, when not?
> > 
> > avahi-autoipd is usually used as a fallback for dhcp.
> I see. In the beginning I more had the impression that avahi would utilise
> dedicated subnets only. But sounds plausible as at least for IPv4
> IP collisions are a lot less when using dhcp. Hmm, but also... if
> I intend to use a network without a dhcp server and all clients
> rely on just using the link local ones, then one host that left its dhcp
> server on by mistake could cause quite a lot of trouble couldn't
> it? Or even if there were two dhcp serves on by mistake with two
> different subnets... hell, that would split everything in two to
> three clouds! I couldn't find an option to enforce link-local
> addresses for avahi anywhere, is there something like this?
> > 
> > > I also found this avahi-ipauto thingy, but it does not seem to be
> > > running for this avahi-ip4ll stuff to assign a 169.254.0.0/16
> > > adress
> > > -169.254.0.0/24 and 169.254.254.0/24 (if I remember right)
> > 
> > uh? avahi-autoipd will assign one of those addresses if no other
> > address is configured via dhcp or so.
> Ah, okay. I had to play a little with dhcp client and avahi to
> see when and how avahi-autoipd is actually determening this state.
> On my Debian system it also looks like, that additionally I have
> to set the according interface to static, dhcp or NetworkManager
> in /etc/network/interfaces, right? (according to
> /etc/avahi/avahi-autoipd.action)
> 
> > > 2nd question: how can I look up the ip addresses that are assigned
> > > to mylaptop.local (mylaptop should just be the local host name in
> > > /etc/hosts on 127.0.1.1 on a debian system, right?)
> > 
> > getent hosts mylaptop.local
> Hmm, that did not seem to work, I'm just getting the local ip
> addresses specified in /etc/hosts. But hey, the mdns-scan did at
> least find the other machine in my network.
> > 
> > (you need nss-mdns installed for that)
> Ehm, and there's only the libnss-mdns available in Debian
> unstable (and it is installed here).
> 
> > 
> > Avahi will always announce the "best" address it can find on each
> > interface. Meaning that global addresses are generally preferred over
> > link-local ones.
> So like global -> organisation -> site -> link -> host? (Is the
> ipv6 multicast scopes list the one that can be used as a
> reference? Or is there something more complete?)
> Another question that comes in my mind here: What happens, if two
> computers have two different subnets configured which can't reach
> each other over this one but could reach each other over their
> ipv6 link local address as being on the same ethernet link.
> Shouldn't avahi announce this link local address as well so that
> those two hosts could communicate with each other anyway?
> Is there a reason why avahi is not announcing all ip addresses
> available on an interface (with adding its prefered priorities so
> that the another host could choose the interface with the highest
> priority stated and reachable as well)?
> 
> And I guess, avahi is announcing both the "best" ipv6 and ipv4
> address letting the other hosts decide which type they are
> capable connecting to, right?
> > 
> > > 3rd question: when exactly is avahi-dnsconfd needed and why? Is my
> > > assupmtion right, that I need this thing, if I want to use
> > > applications that are not utilising avahi (for instance a normal
> > > ping tool) and I want to reach mylaptop.local with that?
> > 
> > It's useful when unicast-DNS server adresses are stored in multicast
> > DNS. it could be used to configure unicast DNS servers in a non-dhcp
> > environment. It is a more exotic feature and hence not installed by
> > default on most distros.
> > 
> > > 4th question: so an application that uses the libavahi can tell
> > > the avahi-daemon to announce a certain service with the specified
> > > port. which ip addresses would/should the avahi-daemon be
> > > announcing then?
> > 
> > as mentioned above avahi uses the "best" ip adress of each respective
> > iface, and treat every iface seperately.
> > 
> > > 5th question: what has to be kept in mind when using avahi with
> > > ipv4+ipv6 or ipv6 only? read this article in the german linux
> > > maganzine  03/06. at the end it is saying that for ipv6 stateless
> > > autoconfiguration, avahi-dnsconfd is necessary. sounds plausible
> > > because of the lack of a dhcp server. but why is this not the case
> > > for avahi with ipv4?
> > 
> > Some awesome dude wrote that article. He is really brainy and smart. I
> > am a great admirer of his ;-)
> > That said, I cannot remember I wrote "necessary" in that
> > article. useful, yes. But necessary, no. In IPv4 if you do automatic
> > configuration of routable IP adresses you use DHCP. And DHCP allows
> > configuration of unicast DNS servers anyway. That's why the
> > avahi-dnsconfd stuff is not really that useful there.
> > 
> > Lennart
> >
> Okay, and then I'd have some more questions about how applications
> that utilise the libavahi stuff should react. Sorry in advance,
> didn't find the time to look at it yet, but will definitely do
> that in two weeks the latest.
> Should applications only allow connections from other hosts that
> had previously announced themselves via avahi or should they accept
> any connection (which might be a security issue?). But the first
> thing could cause some trouble if the kernel would decide to use
> source address differing from the one announced by avahi...
> And again for IPv6, generally an application should try connecting
> to the host's announced IPv6 address first and retry the IPv4 one
> after a timeout?
> 
> Cheers, Linus
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