[Clipart] [Fwd: Re: filter for inkscape and OpenDocument]

[Jon Phillips]

More on the discussion between SVG and OpenDocument...

Jon

-------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Gary Edwards <gary.edwards at OpenStack.us>
> To: Daniel Carrera <dcarrera at digitaldistribution.com>
> Cc: Jon Phillips <jon at rejon.org>
> Subject: Re: filter for inkscape and OpenDocument
> Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:57:44 -0700
> 
> Hi Daniel & Jon,
> 
> Sorry, but i couldn't figure out from your message what the problem
> is.  In an effort to broaden the context of Jon's concerns, i ran a
> google and found that Jon is familiar with the discussions that have
> taken place between the OASIS OpenDocument TC and W3C SVG Workgroup.
> For reference, i've copied the link below:
> 
> Re: [office] [Fwd: clarification: OpenDocument and SVG]
> ... To: SVG List <www-svg at w3.org>, Jon Phillips <jon at rejon.org> > CC:
> Inkscape
> ML <inkscape-devel at lists.sourceforge.net>, dean at w3.org, >
> Lars.Oppermann at Sun. ...
> lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ office/200502/msg00002.html - 9k -
> Cached - Similar pages
> 
> I think Michael Brauer's response to the W3C SVG concerns resolved the
> issue for both groups.  As background to the discussion, i can tell
> you that when the OASIS OpenDoc TC embraced SVG, we did have a number
> of problems.  An example would be  that of "radial shading", an area
> where SVG was lacking.  In time we expect the SVG Workgroup to cover
> all aspects of graphical design, but OpenOffice.org and KOffice need
> these issues resolved now.  And resolved within the OpenDocument
> specification.  The feeling amongst the TC members was that since SVG
> covered all of the common attributes needed, we would rather make the
> move to SVG today, covering the missing attributes as needed, and make
> the adjustments down the road as the SVG spec continues to evolve.  As
> fast as the SVG Workgroup can evolve, we are committed to putting
> those attributes to work.
> 
> OpenDocument has experienced similar situations with other Open XML
> technologies, like XForms and SMiL.  Our charter is not to reinvent
> Open XML technologies, or extend various efforts as we need and leave
> it at that.  Our charter is to embrace the fast moving world of XML,
> and wrap useful implementations into our XML file format
> specification, and make it work.  Unlike so many standards groups,
> OpenDocument aspects are for the most part road tested and proven in
> that great laboratory of emerging technologies, OpenOffice.org, before
> they hit the specification.  Much of this work is also going on at
> KOffice.  It's not uncommon for project developers within these
> communities to bring proposals, concerns and test results back to the
> OpenDoc TC.  Most often with workable recommendations.
> 
> IBM, Novell, and RedHat are not yet working through the OpenDoc TC is
> a similar way.  Hopefully that will change over time.  During the
> first 18 months of TC activity, the specification was very much driven
> by the enterprise - big systems concerns of Stellent, ArborText,
> SpeedLegal, and Boeing.  As a note of interest, it was the Corel
> representatives on the TC who pushed hard for the inclusion of SVG,
> with long time WordPerfect Office developer Paul Languille providing
> much of the SVG specifics and editing contributions.  Corel at the
> time was distributing a worthy SVG browser plugin, similar to that
> provided by Adobe.  Of course, when Microsoft sold their shares in
> Corel for pennies on the dollar, one of the first things the new
> owners (Vulcan) did was to bust up Corel and end all involvement with
> XML, SVG, and the OASIS OpenDocument TC.
> 
> At this weeks OpenDoc TC conference call, Michael announced that Adobe
> representative Duane Nickull has joined the TC.  Duane is also the
> Chairman of the newly formed OASIS SOA - RM TC.  
> 
> Although my own personal ambitions is to try to get Adobe to donate
> their XMPP Metadata model to OpenDocument, it will be interesting to
> see how Adobe, the number one corporate sponsor of SVG, views the
> current OpenDoc implementation.  
> 
> XMPP would be an interesting way for Adobe users to mesh OpenDocument
> applications such as OpenOffice.org, StarOffice, IBM Workplace, Novell
> Office, and RedHat Desktops into the Adobe stack of applications,
> publications, and graphical document stores.  OpenDocument files could
> be managed and re purposed with the same advanced tools and interfaces
> that are used for PDF's.  Adobe has announced to the European Union
> that they intend on supporting OpenDocument through IBM's Workplace,
> but that also means that all the other OpenDoc productivity suites
> could be considered by users wedded to the Adobe stack.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> ~ge~
> 
> Daniel Carrera wrote: 
> > Hi Jon, 
> > 
> > In all honesty, I haven't been able to follow this discussion. So I
> > don't know where it stands. I've CC'd this email to Gary Edwards,
> > he's the OOo volunteer at OASIS. He's the one who would know what's
> > happened with SVG and OpenDocument. 
> > 
> > Best, 
> > Daniel. 
> > 
> > Jon Phillips wrote: 
> > > Hey, what happened with this discussion? Can you give me an
> > > overview of 
> > > what is happening with it and SVG? 
> > > 
> > > Jon 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:01 -0500, Daniel Carrera wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > Hello John, 
> > > > 
> > > > Sorry for the delay in responding, I just got to school. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > First of all, this is really exciting, but I wonder if you
> > > > > could write up more about what is needed of Inkscape for this
> > > > > new format. 
> > > > 
> > > > I'm trying to learn from the failure of the old "ODA" format, to
> > > > prevent the same thing from happening to OpenDocument. The
> > > > reason ODA failed was because there was no industry adoption.
> > > > Hence, I'm arguing that we need to support OpenDocument in as
> > > > many applications as we can manage. Details in the article. 
> > > > 
> > > > The OpenDocument format can express vector graphics. In fact, my
> > > > understanding is that it is either SVG or "essentially" SVG. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > Or do you want a filter that say one has an SVG file, then one
> > > > > can convert that to an OpenDocument file. I don't think that
> > > > > would be difficult. But, what about OpenOffice support for the
> > > > > SVG file format? 
> > > > 
> > > > It'd be good to draw a distinction between OpenOffice.org and
> > > > OpenDocument. OOo does not control OpenDocument, it is but one
> > > > application that supports it. And if all goes well, only one of
> > > > many. OpenDocument is bigger than OOo or KDE or IBM or any of
> > > > the current supporters. 
> > > > 
> > > > But to address your question. If "someone" could write an XSLT
> > > > transformation between OpenDocument and SVG, OOo could use that
> > > > to make a filter yes. 
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers, 
> > 
> 
-- 
Jon Phillips

USA PH 510.499.0894
jon at rejon.org
http://www.rejon.org

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