[gst-devel] Daily IRC logs
wim.taymans at chello.be
wim.taymans at chello.be
Mon Apr 2 06:27:23 CEST 2001
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[12:54] <WildFox> Hi Guys!
[12:54] <WildFox> someone up?
[12:59] Action: steveb snores
[13:05] <greg_> greg is going to have a walk (it so sunny today)
[13:05] Nick change: greg_ -> greg_-walking-
[13:06] Nick change: greg_-walking- -> greg_-walking-\
[13:11] Nick change: wtay-snooker -> wtay
[13:11] <wtay> yo
[13:13] <steveb> hi
[13:13] <WildFox> hi
[13:13] <WildFox> some devs here?
[13:13] <wtay> I sorta do...
[13:13] <steveb> so modest
[13:13] <WildFox> ah
[13:13] <WildFox> i saw your cvs logs wtay:)
[13:14] <WildFox> would you answer some questions?
[13:14] <WildFox> to me
[13:14] <wtay> like 'em ? <g>
[13:14] <wtay> sure
[13:14] <WildFox> first of all i have to say i'm a KDE multimedia dev
[13:14] <wtay> cool
[13:14] <WildFox> and we are highly interested in GStreamer
[13:14] <WildFox> no fool!
[13:14] <wtay> even cooler
[13:14] <wtay> damn
[13:14] <WildFox> i know it's first april but that's no fool :)
[13:15] <wtay> ah
[13:15] <wtay> I'm easily fooled =-)
[13:15] <WildFox> What is with the performance of GStreamer?
[13:15] <WildFox> let's say when playing mp3
[13:15] <WildFox> high load?
[13:15] <WildFox> dropouts?
[13:15] <WildFox> ....
[13:15] <wtay> not really
[13:15] <wtay> the mp3 plugin is kinda slow
[13:16] <wtay> we hacked mpg123 to make it thread safe
[13:16] <WildFox> but i like your architecture
[13:16] <wtay> ok
[13:16] <WildFox> hehe
[13:16] <wtay> the core has very low overhead
[13:16] <wtay> no real measurements yet
[13:16] <WildFox> there's a thread in here now
[13:16] <WildFox> kde-multimedia i mean
[13:16] <wtay> oh
[13:16] <steveb> wtay: I'm working on putting GST_PROPS_FLOAT into gstprops but am coming up against the GINT_TO_GPOINTER stuff - any suggestions
[13:16] <WildFox> the author of our mpeglib wants Arts playobjects
[13:16] <WildFox> for gstreamer
[13:17] <WildFox> so that arts can natively load gstreamer-plugins
[13:17] <wtay> great!
[13:17] <WildFox> but we have one really big problem
[13:17] <wtay> should not be a problem I guess
[13:17] <wtay> oh?
[13:17] <WildFox> aRts is done by Stefan Westerfeld
[13:17] <WildFox> he's the arts hacker
[13:17] <WildFox> and all the other ppl _NOT_!
[13:17] <WildFox> the arts architecture is good
[13:18] <WildFox> but COMPLICATED LIKE HEELL
[13:18] <WildFox> i can't hack it that's sure
[13:18] <wtay> hmm
[13:18] <WildFox> and now we even think about a replacement
[13:18] <WildFox> ...
[13:18] <WildFox> at least me and another dev
[13:18] <wtay> oh?
[13:18] <wtay> why is it too complicated?
[13:18] <WildFox> hmm
[13:18] <WildFox> 1. it can't handle anything else then audio
[13:19] Action: wtay never looked at aRts..
[13:19] <wtay> but you had video too IRCC
[13:19] <WildFox> 2. it can't play ie. mp3....mpeg...etc nativly
[13:19] <WildFox> 3. there is no real plugin system
[13:19] <WildFox> we have, yes
[13:19] <WildFox> but via mpeglib
[13:19] <WildFox> it's a hack
[13:19] <WildFox> not clean
[13:19] <wtay> oh
[13:19] <wtay> no plugin system?
[13:19] <WildFox> same would be for arts + gstreamer
[13:19] <WildFox> mpeglib has one
[13:19] <WildFox> but mpeglib + arts is frickled into each other
[13:19] <WildFox> and i must really say
[13:20] <WildFox> we have many dropouts when playing :/
[13:20] <WildFox> and i would try to fix
[13:20] <WildFox> but too ugly everytinhg
[13:20] <wtay> mpeg1 playback in gstreamer is almost perfect..
[13:21] <WildFox> see.·
[13:21] <WildFox> that's what i mean
[13:21] <WildFox> that's why i'm here :)
[13:21] <wtay> only frame dropping and QoS is not implemented yet
[13:21] <WildFox> does your core depend on gtk?
[13:21] <wtay> for now it still does
[13:21] <wtay> we plan to move to glib real soon now
[13:22] <WildFox> great
[13:22] <wtay> zaheer is going to start on that this or next week
[13:22] <WildFox> that's the same thing we did with arts
[13:22] <WildFox> arts core is complete c
[13:22] <WildFox> w/o qt w/o gtk
[13:22] <WildFox> ..
[13:22] <wtay> yes
[13:22] <wtay> I'm now working on a plain X videosink
[13:22] <WildFox> we planned to share with GNOME
[13:23] <WildFox> shit is/was/will be
[13:23] <wtay> I heard yes..
[13:23] <WildFox> that stefan has no clue about video
[13:23] <WildFox> and you are that far
[13:23] <WildFox> and the dev's are cool *hehe* :)
[13:23] <wtay> :-)
[13:23] <WildFox> if you get the rid of gtk in the core we could think of a nice shared solution
[13:23] <WildFox> between KDE and GNOME
[13:23] <wtay> well lemme say that we do not interfere with GNOME/aRts plans
[13:24] <WildFox> mom
[13:24] <WildFox> dict.leo.org :)
[13:24] <WildFox> aho
[13:24] <WildFox> ok :)
[13:25] <WildFox> hm
[13:25] <WildFox> but gstreamer has things which are really needed _now_ which arts hasn't
[13:25] <wtay> are you going to be at GUADEC?
[13:25] <WildFox> probably no
[13:25] <WildFox> but perhaps yes
[13:26] <wtay> the aRts presentation is right before the GStreamer presentation
[13:26] <WildFox> nicest thing
[13:26] <WildFox> gstreamer: complete gtk independant
[13:26] <WildFox> i think
[13:26] <wtay> yes that's the idea
[13:26] <WildFox> arts has the more flexible core
[13:26] <WildFox> gstreamer the pluginsystem + nice plugins
[13:26] <WildFox> very nice plugins :)
[13:26] <wtay> zaheer *needs* this RSN because he's doing a media server and he doesn't want X on it
[13:27] <WildFox> if we could merge the projecs somehow
[13:27] <WildFox> that would be very great
[13:27] <WildFox> GNOME+KDE shared Audio implementation
[13:27] <WildFox> sounds nice, eh?
[13:27] <wtay> very
[13:27] <WildFox> as arts doesn't depend on qt
[13:27] <WildFox> and gstreamer also not
[13:27] <WildFox> that would be possible
[13:27] <WildFox> <- brb
[13:27] <wtay> why is the aRts core more flexible?
[13:29] <WildFox> hmm
[13:29] <WildFox> ever seen artsbuilder?
[13:30] <wtay> not sure..
[13:30] <wtay> does it look like gsteditor?
[13:30] <wtay> arts.kde.org?
[13:30] <WildFox> wait
[13:30] <WildFox> i'll give you a screenie
[13:30] <WildFox> ok?
[13:31] <wtay> sure
[13:31] <wtay> a URL preferably
[13:31] <wtay> http://www.arts-project.org/
[13:32] <WildFox> yep
[13:32] <WildFox> but a new screenie:
[13:33] <WildFox> http://wildfox.dyndns.org/images/arts.png
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[13:34] <wtay> hi
[13:35] <hadess> hi wtay
[13:35] <wtay> WildFox: yup, audio only, at a finer lvere then the gstreamer plugins
[13:35] <wtay> WildFox: did you see overflow?
[13:35] <WildFox> overflow ?
[13:36] <wtay> http://freespeech.sourceforge.net/overflow.html
[13:36] <WildFox> mom
[13:36] <wtay> very similar
[13:37] <WildFox> hmm ok
[13:37] <wtay> aRts and overflow target the construction of gstreamer plugins (at a more detailed level)
[13:38] <WildFox> arts existed before gstreamer
[13:38] <wtay> yes
[13:38] <wtay> with a different goal IMO
[13:38] <WildFox> yep
[13:38] <WildFox> it's aim was a complete syntesizer
[13:38] <WildFox> before
[13:38] <wtay> the overflow guys is going to intergrate his stuff too he said
[13:39] <WildFox> ah
[13:39] <WildFox> btw
[13:39] <wtay> the idea is to use overflow to constuct an element that is inserted in a gstreamer pipeline
[13:39] <WildFox> will gstreamer be GNOME's standard sound system?
[13:39] <wtay> aRts would be similar I think
[13:39] <wtay> WildFox: undecided
[13:39] <hadess> gstreamer is not designed to be a sound system
[13:39] <WildFox> not?
[13:40] <wtay> we are not promoting it as such
[13:40] <hadess> there are great chances that the basic arts will become the sound server for gnome 2.0, replacing esd
[13:40] <wtay> we kinda got sucked into it because our project starts with a 'g' :)
[13:40] <WildFox> hehe
[13:40] <WildFox> yep
[13:40] <WildFox> arts will be KDE's + GNOME's soundserver
[13:40] <WildFox> cause it's great
[13:40] <WildFox> only missing thing
[13:40] <WildFox> only missing things
[13:40] <wtay> as I said, we are not interfering with GNOME/aRts plans
[13:41] <WildFox> plugin archiecure
[13:41] <WildFox> will be done soon
[13:41] <WildFox> + ability to use gstreamer plugins
[13:41] <wtay> I would not object to an aRts plugin for gstreamer though
[13:41] <WildFox> humm
[13:41] <WildFox> i don't understand that sentence
[13:41] <wtay> as a way to flow the data to aRts
[13:41] <WildFox> <- no native english speaker
[13:41] <wtay> I mean:
[13:41] <wtay> aRts does audio, and it does so very well
[13:42] <wtay> gstreamer does a lot more
[13:42] <wtay> imagine an mpeg1 player that needs to play sound, gstreamer routes that to the aRts plugin
[13:42] <WildFox> oh
[13:42] <WildFox> i won't do that
[13:42] <WildFox> think of syncing issues
[13:43] <wtay> you do your funky stuff with aRts, while gstreamer does the other things it is good at
[13:43] <WildFox> i think my idea is the better longtime seen
[13:43] <WildFox> merging gstreamer + arts
[13:43] <WildFox> the GNOME/KDE Sound System
[13:43] <WildFox> no
[13:43] <WildFox> even more
[13:43] <WildFox> the Linux Sound System
[13:44] <WildFox> something like this
[13:44] <wtay> and how would you merge them then?
[13:44] <WildFox> playing all kinds of audio
[13:44] <WildFox> video
[13:44] <WildFox> even dvd
[13:44] <WildFox> etc..
[13:44] <WildFox> hmm
[13:44] <WildFox> the implementation is a completly different point
[13:44] <hadess> gstreamer already does that on its own
[13:44] <WildFox> yes
[13:44] <WildFox> but not things like ...artsbuilder etc..
[13:44] <WildFox> i think gstreamer's core is even better
[13:45] <wtay> so what I propose is to take the things of aRts and incorporate them in gstreamer
[13:45] <WildFox> right
[13:45] <WildFox> all the "good" thinks from aRts into gstreamer
[13:45] <wtay> incorporating means creating an aRts plugin
[13:45] <wtay> in gstreamer
[13:45] <WildFox> hmm
[13:46] <WildFox> so your project doesn't _WANT_ to be a full featured soundserver?
[13:46] <wtay> nope
[13:46] <wtay> can be used for it but it's not the goal IMO
[13:46] <WildFox> oh
[13:46] <wtay> gstreamer is targetted at large media handling (video editing/audio editing etc..)
[13:47] <wtay> render farms etc..
[13:47] <wtay> anything media related
[13:47] <WildFox> hmm
[13:47] <WildFox> but you would say
[13:47] <WildFox> ok we do video
[13:47] <WildFox> but for audio we route to arts
[13:47] <WildFox> why ?
[13:48] <wtay> why would we rebuild aRts?
[13:48] <wtay> for audio we route for example to esd..
[13:48] <WildFox> i'd say designing issues
[13:49] <wtay> gstreamer is the glue between plugins really, managing scheduling and state etc..
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[13:49] <wtay> it is like a integration middleware
[13:49] <WildFox> yes
[13:49] <WildFox> so like:
[13:49] <WildFox> gstreamer ->>>>>>>>>>> plugin MPEG
[13:49] <WildFox> |
[13:49] <WildFox> ->>>>>>>>>>>>> plugin aRts
[13:50] <WildFox> ...
[13:50] <WildFox> but i'd say that's not good
[13:50] <wtay> more like:
[13:50] <WildFox> better have your own ie. way play object
[13:50] <wtay> disksrc->mpg123->aRts
[13:50] <wtay> or disksrc->mpg123->aRts->RTPsrc
[13:50] <WildFox> huh?
[13:50] <WildFox> whats that?
[13:51] <wtay> http://gstreamer.net/mpeg2.png
[13:51] <wtay> we connect plugins in gstreamer that manipulate the data in some way
[13:51] <WildFox> ah
[13:51] <WildFox> like
[13:52] <WildFox> mom
[13:52] <wtay> the play_audio element at the end is where audio is rendered (esd/oss/RTP/aRts,...)
[13:52] <WildFox> pitch changer
[13:52] <WildFox> |
[13:52] <WildFox> WAV PLAY OBJECT -> OUTPUT
[13:52] <WildFox> |
[13:52] <WildFox> delay changer
[13:52] <WildFox> and the scheduling is done by gstreamer?
[13:52] <wtay> yes
[13:52] <WildFox> hmm
[13:52] <WildFox> same like arts
[13:53] <wtay> it doesn't care what media it is handling, it just passes data
[13:53] <WildFox> MCOP
[13:53] <WildFox> ..
[13:53] <WildFox> that's MCOP's aim
[13:53] <wtay> CORBA/XML to construct remote piplines
[13:54] <WildFox> hmm
[13:55] <WildFox> but generally it would be a good idea if arts could "use" those gstreamer-plugins
[13:55] <wtay> yes
[13:55] <wtay> overflow is trying to do the same
[13:55] <wtay> you have to make sure you can handle the scheduling though
[13:55] <WildFox> yep
[13:55] <WildFox> arts can do that
[13:55] <WildFox> it does the same
[13:55] <hadess> WildFox: have you produced code for arts or another multimedia project ?
[13:56] <WildFox> hadess: i'm KDE sound developer
[13:56] <hadess> ok
[13:56] <wtay> gstreamer uses threads and cothreads quite extensively
[13:56] <wtay> push and pull based
[13:56] <WildFox> stefan westerfeld is at the moment making everything thread-safe
[13:57] <hadess> what a waste...
[13:57] <WildFox> hmm ?
[13:57] <wtay> hadess: why?
[13:57] <WildFox> what do you mean, hadess?
[13:57] <hadess> have you seen the gstreamer flame-war on kd-multimedia ?
[13:58] <wtay> hadess: done by a signle individual
[13:58] <wtay> s/done/started
[13:58] <WildFox> i love my mail:
[13:58] <WildFox> "
[13:58] <WildFox> even mpg123 is better IMHO
[13:58] <WildFox> we should _NEVER_ ever do this step!
[13:58] <WildFox> pls guys don't even think about it
[13:58] <WildFox>
[13:58] <WildFox> i think you are absolutly right Charles
[13:59] <wtay> there's no need to flame, we should cooperate
[13:59] <WildFox> we actually have alternatives!
[13:59] <WildFox> Bye
[13:59] <WildFox> Bye
[13:59] <WildFox> Niko
[13:59] <WildFox> "
[13:59] <WildFox> have a look at the time
[13:59] <WildFox> :)))
[13:59] <hadess> http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-multimedia&m=98605060521638&w=2
[13:59] <WildFox> 01 April 2001 01:15
[13:59] <WildFox> heyx
[13:59] <WildFox> charles didn't mean it like this!
[13:59] <WildFox> you missunderstood
[13:59] <WildFox> April!
[14:00] <hadess> hmmm, that's a bad one then
[14:00] <hadess> because it could actually be true
[14:00] dichro (dichro at CPE-144-132-243-155.nsw.bigpond.net.au) joined #gstreamer.
[14:00] <WildFox> no
[14:00] <hadess> i remember the april fool's joke "Gimp ported to Win32" a couple of years ago...
[14:01] <WildFox> see dot.kde.org
[14:01] <WildFox> we replaced all c++ stuff in KDE with JavaScript
[14:01] <WildFox> + HTML
[14:01] <WildFox> + QPainter with gecko
[14:01] <WildFox> ;))))
[14:01] <dichro> greetings - would this be a bad time for some foolish questions about gstreamer?
[14:02] <wtay> dichro: go ahead :)
[14:03] <WildFox> hadess: what's your realname?
[14:03] <WildFox> if i may ask
[14:03] <dichro> it's actually fairly simple :) the context is a webcam - given a single source and multiple sinks that sink data at variable rates, is there an easy way to handle the pipeline/pipeline forking?
[14:03] Uraeus (cschalle at c224s9h5.upc.chello.no) joined #gstreamer.
[14:03] <wtay> yo
[14:03] <Uraeus> hi
[14:03] <wtay> dichro: pipeline forking?
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: you mean like a media server?
[14:04] <dichro> um - attaching two sinks to a single src? can that be done?
[14:04] Action: dichro nods
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: yes
[14:04] <dichro> 'approximately, yes.
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: use a tee
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: a tee forks the data
[14:05] <wtay> dichro: you can request additional pads at runtime
[14:05] <dichro> 'how does flow control work if they sink data at different rates? does it work at all, or does the entire thing block until all of the sinks have handled each frame?
[14:05] <wtay> dichro: but only when incremental scheduling has been merged...
[14:05] <WildFox> hadess wtay: Thank you very much for the talk!
[14:05] <wtay> WildFox: no prob
[14:05] <WildFox> Bye
[14:05] Action: dichro grins
[14:05] <hadess> WildFox: good luck with kde =)
[14:05] <WildFox> thnx :)
[14:05] <wtay> dichro: depends on how the sink is made
[14:05] WildFox (nikoz at p3EE0F4B9.dip.t-dialin.net) left #gstreamer (*eat*).
[14:06] <wtay> dichro: I would suggest a threaded setup so the src never blocks
[14:06] <Uraeus> hadess: wildfox wanted to use GStreamer in KDE?
[14:06] <wtay> Uraeus: yup
[14:06] <Uraeus> wtay: what about aRTS?
[14:06] <wtay> Uraeus: assimilated :-)
[14:07] <dichro> so - the best thing would be for the sink to grab frames as far the source can offer them, and just throw them away if it can't do anything useful with them?
[14:07] <wtay> dichro: exectly
[14:07] <Uraeus> good, actually if GNOME used aRTS as a soundserver and KDE used GStreamer as a multimedia framework that would be really cool
[14:07] <wtay> s/exectly/exactly
[14:08] <Uraeus> wtay: will he make and aRTS sink from GStreamer?
[14:08] <wtay> Uraeus: still investigating
[14:08] Action: dichro ponders
[14:08] <dichro> wtay: thanks for that, it's simplified the options a great deal :)
[14:08] <wtay> dichro: be sure to take a look at zaheer's work
[14:09] <wtay> dichro: he's making a media server with gst and RTP
[14:09] <dichro> wtay: what and where is that?
[14:09] <hadess> Uraeus: lemme show you something
[14:09] <wtay> dichro: no URL yet.. not sure where it is
[14:09] <wtay> dichro: OpenTeleMedia IIRC
[14:09] <dichro> wtay: I think we're aiming at slightly different target audiences - my goal is firstly to supplant camserv :)
[14:10] <wtay> dichro: ok
[14:11] <hadess> Uraeus: ?
[14:11] <wtay> dichro: how are you going to send out data to the client?
[14:11] <dichro> wtay: HTTP.
[14:11] <wtay> dichro: ah ok
[14:11] <wtay> dichro: need to integrate it into apache then?
[14:12] <dichro> wtay: camserv has a cute trick with mixed/x-multipart-replace, and I presume there's *some* kind of streaming video thing that's reasonably well suppported somewhere
[14:13] <dichro> wtay: possibly - it would be nice, from the perspective of unified statistics, management and so on.
[14:13] <wtay> dichro: what encoding are you going to use then?
[14:13] <dichro> wtay: one idea that crossed my mind was a SysV shmem sink, and some very simple CGIs that would grab encoded frames out of it
[14:14] <dichro> wtay: camserv does multipart/x-mixed-replace with each part being a JPEG frame.
[14:14] <wtay> dichro: ok cool
[14:14] <dichro> wtay: it works really well - but only with netscape.
[14:14] <wtay> dichro: hmm
[14:14] <hadess> Uraeus: ?
[14:14] <Uraeus> hadess
[14:14] <Uraeus> I am bakc
[14:15] <Uraeus> hadess: ok, what do you have to show me
[14:15] <hadess> Uraeus: can you accept the dcc
[14:15] <Uraeus> yes
[14:16] <Uraeus> hadess: it plays mp3's now?
[14:16] <hadess> Uraeus: still not, but it's cddb enabled
[14:16] <wtay> dichro: you'll probably need a queue that throws away frames when the queue is full...
[14:16] <hadess> Uraeus: i need to add the playlist and the library loading before being able to play mp3s
[14:16] <wtay> dichro: th normal queue would blovk
[14:16] <Uraeus> hadess: cool, looks nice too. Did you have those bottom buttons last time you sent me a screenshot?
[14:17] <hadess> Uraeus: no
[14:17] <Uraeus> hadess: they look great
[14:17] Action: dichro nods
[14:17] <Uraeus> need to run, going carting
[14:17] Nick change: Uraeus -> U_carting
[14:17] <dichro> wtay: I'd just about figured out that I'd need to do my own flow control, the only question is where
[14:17] <hadess> U_carting: have fun =)
[14:18] <dichro> wtay: I could do a single pipeline, grab finished frames out the end, and manually distribute them out to the sockets (either via direct network write, or bouncing through shmem out to individual CGIs, which is another can of flow control worms)
[14:19] <dichro> wtay: or I thought that there might have been a way of expressing all of the flow control logic within a pipeline somehow, and I wouldn't need to write any extra code :)
[14:21] <dichro> I guess the other question is - is there any method of streaming video that's broadly supported with just a generic browser?
[14:21] <wtay> dichro: either way, I think gstreamer can handle the threading stuff too, only problem is the interaction with the CGI stuff
[14:21] <wtay> dichro: nope
[14:22] <wtay> dichro: jpeg is your only option is you take a regular browser
[14:22] <wtay> s/is/if
[14:23] Action: dichro nods
[14:23] <dichro> No worse off than I am right now, I guess. Pity - I was getting all excited about subtitle support in mpeg, too.
[14:23] <wtay> you might be able to create a HTTPsend plugin in gstreamer and fork it from apache...
[14:24] <wtay> somhow pass it the fd of the incomming connection..
[14:24] <dichro> to be honest, I'm not terribly concerned about the CGI interface - I think that should be fairly easy to do.
[14:24] <dichro> wtay: that's one way of doing it - the fd passing overhead would easily be lost in the codec noise
[14:25] <wtay> the beauty is that the src can be anything, even MPEG2 with subtitles
[14:25] <dichro> wtay: ya, but I want to deliver video + subtitles to the user :)
[14:25] <dichro> wtay: I guess it needs an overlay plugin to mix the two into a single jpeg image :P
[14:25] <dichro> wtay: or does that already exist?
[14:25] <wtay> dichro: done already
[14:26] Action: dichro laughs
[14:26] <dichro> wtay: should have guessed :)
[14:26] <wtay> it merges MPEG2 subtitles with any incomming video frame
[14:27] <wtay> not very optimal yet because the input pad only handles encoded MPEG2 subtitles, but hey :)
[14:32] <dichro> wtay: thanks for the sage advice, I'll play this week and see if I can create something that can stand the light of day.
[14:32] <wtay> dichro: heh, ok
[14:32] Action: dichro waves
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[15:13] <djcb> omega-europe: ?
[15:13] <wtay> djcb: dunno..
[15:14] <djcb> wtay: ok... i need to talk to him about directions
[15:14] <djcb> .. of his talk of monday night.
[15:15] <wtay> oh
[15:15] <djcb> anyway, i'll send him mail.
[15:30] <BBB-[away]> wtay: a small change in gstplay to prevent it from crashing
[15:31] <wtay> BBB-[away]: oooh cool!
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> wtay: can you do me a favour and make the changes and upload them to CVS? :)
[15:31] <wtay> BBB-[away]: sure
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> ok
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> in gstplay, in the function gst_play_stop()
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> you set the state to GST_STATE_NULL, make this GST_STATE_READY
[15:32] <wtay> ok
[15:32] <BBB-[away]> the problem is now that if you press stop or EOF is reached, it will not go back to zero
[15:32] <BBB-[away]> but that's probably a small change to get that to work too
[15:32] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:33] <wtay> logically it should go to NULL...
[15:33] <BBB-[away]> with this change, it doesn't crash by default (vob EOF still crashes and if you press stop here - it DOES go back to zero (?), I have no clue why...)
[15:33] <wtay> is the problem the fact that the offset cannot be changed after going to NULL?
[15:34] <BBB-[away]> wtay: I'm not completely sure.... I hardly ever looked into the source. I made this change yesterday when me and zaheer and erik and steve were looking and hacking during our oddesey
[15:34] <BBB-[away]> I should actually try to understand the source first.....
[15:34] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:37] <wtay> BBB-[away]: what did you guys talk about?
[15:37] <BBB-[away]> about lots of things
[15:37] <BBB-[away]> erik gave a whole description of what needs to be done for the next release
[15:37] <BBB-[away]> and I tried to understand some parts of it :)
[15:38] <wtay> anything you could remember? <g>
[15:38] Action: wtay is curious
[15:38] <BBB-[away]> lol
[15:38] <BBB-[away]> well, the eos problem :)
[15:39] <wtay> yes... <g>
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and also when you have a dual stream pipe and one is filled with buffer and the other is not, what should it do
[15:39] <wtay> yes... and...
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and some structure changes which you should ask erik about since I don't know much about that
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and he wanted to rewrite something
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> he already did it 8 times
[15:39] <wtay> the scheduling?
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and now he had to do it again
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> because it shouls still be different
[15:40] <BBB-[away]> scheduling
[15:40] <BBB-[away]> yes
[15:40] <wtay> ok same old...
[15:40] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:40] <wtay> that's one of the main functionalities of gstreamer
[15:41] <BBB-[away]> hm
[15:41] <BBB-[away]> it's not as it should be, he said :P
[15:41] <wtay> I'm sure it isn't...
[15:41] <wtay> it's a hard problem
[15:41] <wtay> we know we should have at least 10 rewrites before it's 100% ok
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> uhm......
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> what is so hard about it?
[15:42] <wtay> EOS, state changes, events etc...
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> hm....
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> ok :)
[15:42] <wtay> threads, cothreads, chains etc...
[15:43] <wtay> lot's of experimentation needed
[15:43] <BBB-[away]> hm........
[15:43] <BBB-[away]> too technical for me :P
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> ps, tell me if the problem of the eos/stop not going back to zero is fixed, ok?
[15:46] <wtay> BBB-[away]: I slightly modified the state changes it now crashes less violently
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> so I can re-test my own movies :P
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> wtay: it shouldn't crash AT ALL
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> :P
[15:46] <wtay> stop->play doesn't work
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> um
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> but if eos/eof is reached, it doesn't crash?
[15:47] <wtay> nope
[15:47] <BBB-[away]> that's good :P
[15:47] <wtay> ok
[15:47] <BBB-[away]> and if you press stop it doesn't crash as well? :P
[15:47] <wtay> it does
[15:47] <BBB-[away]> ?
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> but eos/eof and stop is basically the same!!!
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> I looked at the source.
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> it both triggers gst_play_stop();
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> so that's kinda weird
[15:48] <wtay> eos is triggered from the pipeline, stop can also be triggered from the GUI
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> that's true.........
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> but the action is the same in both cases.....
[15:49] <wtay> hmm, it's my fix that fails...
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> muhahahahahhahahaahhaha :P
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> lol
[15:50] <wtay> ok, I'll commit your suggestion although it is not the right fix IMO
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> it's not
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> but at least it doesn't crash anymore :P
[15:50] <wtay> true
[15:50] <wtay> that's why I'll commit it :-)
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> the thing is just that it doesn't go back to zero, if you can change that it should be okay :)
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> and don't forget my name :P :P :P
[15:51] <wtay> BBB-[away]: where do you want your name to be shown?
[15:51] <BBB-[away]> nowhere :P
[15:51] <BBB-[away]> it's just one line :P
[15:51] <wtay> BBB-[away]: you sure? <g>
[15:51] <BBB-[away]> that'and you'll change it anyway if you fix the not-back-to-zero problem :P
[15:51] <wtay> not even in the about bow?
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> ok
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> in the about :)
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> lol
[15:52] <wtay> BBB-[away]: name, email?
[15:53] <BBB-[away]> Ronald Bultje, <rbultje at ronald.bitfreak.net>
[15:54] <wtay> ok
[15:54] <BBB-[away]> ps, I promised Erik I would try to fix the fact that it doesn't go back to zero, so maybe I'll submit another patch to you today :)
[15:54] <BBB-[away]> maybe I can actually get it to work :)
[15:55] <wtay> BBB-[away]: ok commited (be sure to press about) <g>
[15:55] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:56] <BBB-[away]> I'll download the newest CVS right now :)
[15:56] <wtay> uhmm
[15:56] <BBB-[away]> uhmm?
[15:56] <BBB-[away]> not good?
[15:57] <wtay> hmm, no I didn't see you name in about... it used another .glade file I guess...
[15:57] <BBB-[away]> uhm
[15:58] <BBB-[away]> the glade file is adapted here :)
[15:58] <wtay> I have tons of gstreamer dirs so...
[15:58] <BBB-[away]> uhm
[15:58] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:59] <BBB-[away]> ok
[15:59] <BBB-[away]> hm
[15:59] <BBB-[away]> ./configure--ing right now :)
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> > This patch is now The Right Way(tm) to handle the stop button but at
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> > least it doesn't crash...
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> >
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> s/now/NOT
[16:04] <BBB-[away]> lol!
[16:04] <wtay> right
[16:07] <hadess> "ESR just broke into my house. He's naked, covered in jelly and holding a gun along with a copy of ESR's Love Tips :("
[16:08] <BBB-[away]> um........
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[16:32] <BBB-[away]> I'm kinda wondering what actually happens - it seems like the thread itself is shut down when you run into gst_play_stop();
[16:32] <BBB-[away]> because it just ... stops
[16:32] <BBB-[away]> :)
[16:36] <wtay> the thread should just wait until going to NULL state at which point it stops
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> :)
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> it doesn't
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> even if I literally set it to paused - so GTK_STATE_PAUSED and GST_PLAY_PAUSED
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> it still stops the thread and it does not respond to the slider anymore
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> os something in gst_play_stop stops the thread
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[16:56] <BBB-[away]> hm........
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> EOS is really a problem
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> in divx, the stop button works okay
[16:56] <wtay> BBB-[away]: yes
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> in vob, too
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> in mpeg, it crashes
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> but eos makes them all either crash or say eos all the time
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> :)
[16:57] <BBB-[away]> so this doesn't really help much :P
[16:59] <wtay> omega is working on the scheduling and events which would solve this once and for all
[17:00] <BBB-[away]> so this is a scheduling problem?
[17:00] Action: BBB-[away] finally sees the whole use of the scheduler :)
[17:00] <wtay> yes
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[17:30] Uraeus (cschalle at 212.186.233.224) joined #gstreamer.
[17:59] Action: hadess is packing the geeky t-shirts
[18:04] Action: Uraeus is laughing evily at his latest attempt to curb stupid Gnotice flames
[18:08] <hadess> Uraeus: for which article ? the Eazel one ?
[18:08] <Uraeus> hadess: yes someone posting as Mariuhana Man was flaming so after he reposted after three deletions I decided to edit instead
[18:09] <hadess> what was the flame ?
[18:10] <Uraeus> hadess: Eazel suck, Eazel is Evil, I will use KDE from now on as so on.
[18:10] <hadess> jada, jada, jada
[18:10] <Uraeus> hadess: hope he is happy with his new post :)
[18:11] <Uraeus> aaargh, he has reposted again
[18:12] <hadess> 3 comments from him on this page
[18:14] <Uraeus> haddes: well the two at the bottom is the ones I have edited
[18:16] <Uraeus> problem is that I can't continue with this deltion/editing crap, if he continue to repost I guess I have to let it stand
[18:17] <hadess> my turn =)
[18:17] <wtay> tss... kids...
[18:18] <wtay> and I thought Nautilus was comming along nicely..
[18:19] <Uraeus> me too
[18:20] <Uraeus> aah, it seems he finally stopped
[18:22] <wtay> food...
[18:22] Nick change: wtay -> wtay-food
[18:24] <steveb> Uraeus: tee hee
[18:24] <hadess> Uraeus: I've posted a comment as well...
[18:38] <Uraeus> hadess: thanks
[18:40] <Uraeus> heh, that reponse from pinky to morgoth was kinda nice :)
[18:46] <hadess> morgoth's a real troll
[18:47] <Uraeus> yup, as pinky said with friends like that who needs enemies
[18:49] <Uraeus> for some reason do people leave common decency behind when going online
[18:52] <hadess> that's "common sense" and "decency" =)
[18:53] <Uraeus> hehe
[18:55] <Uraeus> sorry, I get very sloppy with my english when I am online
[18:57] <hadess> heh, mine's not really better when i'm talking face to face
[18:58] <hadess> sometimes i talk like i'm a native, sometimes it's like i just arrived with the rest of the boat-people
[18:59] <Uraeus> well while I think I speak english which native-english speakers easily can understand, there is no doubt that I am not a native english speaker :)
[18:59] <hadess> if you understand them well also, that's good
[19:00] greg_ (greg at home.sente.pl) joined #gstreamer.
[19:00] <Uraeus> think I do, except some dialects like texan or highland scottish which I really have concentrate on
[19:01] <hadess> haha, you don't have to go that far north not to understand anything
[19:01] <hadess> even yorkshire (leeds, manchester, sheffield) is enough
[19:02] <Uraeus> no doubt ;)
[19:02] <hadess> i was with a friend from brighton up there, and i didn't get anything this lady was saying, and i thought it came from me
[19:02] <hadess> but my mate didn't get anything either =)
[19:03] <Uraeus> hehe
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[19:57] dobey (dobey at 141.154.95.104) joined #gstreamer.
[19:57] <hadess> hey dobey
[19:57] <dobey> yo
[19:58] <wtay-food> hi
[19:58] Nick change: wtay-food -> wtay
[19:58] <dobey> sup?
[19:59] <wtay> XFlush issues...
[19:59] <Uraeus> flame issues
[19:59] <wtay> or something...
[20:00] Nick change: aj_zzzz -> ajmitch
[20:00] <ajmitch> hi
[20:00] <Uraeus> hi ajmitch
[20:02] <wtay> yo ajmitch
[20:02] <ajmitch> what're ppl up to?
[20:02] <wtay> trying to get X videosink working
[20:03] <wtay> it works smoothly with mpeg2parse but it stutters with gstmediaplay
[20:03] <ajmitch> ah..
[20:06] <ajmitch> you seen the messages on kde-multimedia lately?
[20:07] <wtay> yes
[20:07] <ajmitch> Njaard acting as stoopid as always...
[20:09] <wtay> WildFox (aRts developer) came by a few hours ago to talk about cooperation...
[20:09] <ajmitch> cool
[20:09] <dobey> omg
[20:09] <ajmitch> wish i had been here, i've talked to him a bit
[20:09] <wtay> yeah, check out the IRC logs
[20:10] <wtay> no real plans yet
[20:10] Action: ajmitch scrolls up...
[20:11] <Uraeus> wtay: you are SO unethical :)
[20:11] <Uraeus> wtay: cooperating with you would be a sellout
[20:12] <Uraeus> rofl
[20:12] <ajmitch> lol
[20:12] <wtay> hehehe
[20:12] <wtay> I'm am obsessed by money... :)
[20:12] djcb (binnema at 29dyn1.dh.casema.net) joined #gstreamer.
[20:12] <dobey> so get a job
[20:12] <wtay> only thing on my mind... I'd love to be a sellout
[20:13] <wtay> dobey: I have
[20:13] <dobey> there are things better than money
[20:14] <Uraeus> dobey: yes, but sex relates little to GStreamer development
[20:14] <dobey> so does money
[20:14] <dobey> it IS GPL
[20:15] omega (omega at omegacs.net) joined #gstreamer.
[20:15] <dobey> and it's not like your full-time job is to hack gstreamer
[20:15] <BBB-[away]> omega!!!
[20:16] <Uraeus> dobey: I doubt omega agrees with you on that :)
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[20:16] <dobey> what?
[20:16] <Uraeus> dobey: he works fulltime on gstreamer
[20:16] <djcb> omega: got my mail?
[20:17] <dobey> Uraeus: oh, who pays for it then?
[20:17] <Uraeus> dobey: ridgerun
[20:18] <dobey> Uraeus: besides, i wasn't talking about omega, i was talking about everyone that hacks on it fool
[20:19] <Uraeus> dobey: don't get aggresive I thought we where having a light hearted discussion sorry if I misread you
[20:19] <dobey> heh, that isn't aggressive, you should have seen me pounding the ydl people yesterday
[20:19] wtay (wim at 195.162.214.198) joined #gstreamer.
[20:20] <Uraeus> :)
[20:20] <wtay> uhm
[20:20] <dobey> doing rpm --rebuild on someone elses rpms does not constitute your own distro, jesus christ
[20:21] <Uraeus> heh
[20:21] <Uraeus> another redhat ripoff?
[20:21] ajmitch (me at 203.173.238.141) left irc: Read error to ajmitch[203.173.238.141]: Connection reset by peer
[20:21] <dobey> yes, they just rebuilt the rh7 srpms
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[20:23] <Uraeus> dobey: I hope they did a s/RedHat/ydl/g at least, or where they even cheaper?
[20:23] <dobey> probably cheaper
[20:23] <dobey> and they used rawhide rpms too, so openssl is totally fucked in it
[20:24] <dobey> because the so number was upped to .1 in the rawhide package
[20:24] <dobey> stupid people
[20:24] <Uraeus> ah
[20:25] <dobey> they were all saying 0.9.6 isn't bincompat with 0.9.5a, because it says that in the .spec file's changelog, when it is bincompat
[20:26] <wtay> omega: ?
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[20:32] <Uraeus> wtay: are you sure this omega is 'our
[20:32] <Uraeus> ' omega?
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[20:34] <wtay> yeah, it's the autoconnect feature of XChat..
[20:35] <ajmitch> damned xchat
[20:39] <ajmitch> bye
[20:40] <wtay> cya
[20:40] <hadess> ciao
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[21:27] <hadess> night wtay
[21:27] hadess (hadess at pc123-gui14.cable.ntl.com) left irc: sleep
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[22:08] WildFox (nikoz at 62.224.244.185) joined #gstreamer.
[22:08] <WildFox> hi again
[22:08] <WildFox> wtay: ther?
[22:08] <wtay> hello
[22:08] <WildFox> cool
[22:08] <WildFox> you are subscribed to kde-multimedia?
[22:08] <dobey> hrmm
[22:09] Action: dobey runs away
[22:09] <wtay> WildFox: nope
[22:09] <wtay> should I?
[22:09] <WildFox> not really
[22:09] <WildFox> i just want to verify one thing
[22:09] djcb (binnema at 29dyn1.dh.casema.net) joined #gstreamer.
[22:09] <wtay> not that I don't want to :)
[22:09] <WildFox> could you read a mail for me pls ?
[22:09] <wtay> sure
[22:10] <WildFox> <- just wanna be sure that i didn't write complete trash
[22:10] <WildFox> :)
[22:10] <WildFox> better /query
[22:10] <WildFox> or public?
[22:11] <wtay> you decide
[22:11] <WildFox> On Sunday 01 April 2001 21:51, Charles Samuels wrote:
[22:11] <WildFox> > I'll tell you why I oppose this.
[22:11] <WildFox> >
[22:11] <WildFox> > If we use gstreamer, gstreamer will be standard, GNOME will use gstreamer
[22:11] <WildFox> > instead of arts, and then eventually we're going to have to switch to
[22:11] <WildFox> _NO_!
[22:11] <WildFox> you are completly wrong, Charles
[22:11] <WildFox>
[22:11] <WildFox> i talked with one of the gstreamer core devs!
[22:11] <WildFox> they do _NOT_ wanna create their own soundserver...
[22:11] <WildFox> if they ie. need audio they paste it to esd/arts (in future)
[22:11] <WildFox> that dev also voted for aRts being the standard!
[22:11] <WildFox> so do _NOT_ mix them up
[22:11] <WildFox>
[22:11] <WildFox> he also told me that gstreamer "just" handles the communication
[22:11] <WildFox> within the plugins at all....
[22:11] <WildFox> > gstreamer instead of arts, because of gnome's famed FUD-machine.
[22:11] <WildFox> >
[22:11] <WildFox> > And I do NOT want to switch to gstreamer, since aRts is clearly superior,
[22:11] <WildFox> > and much better written. Read: C++
[22:11] <WildFox> >
[22:11] <WildFox> > -Charles
[22:11] <WildFox> ..
[22:12] <WildFox> right or not right ?
[22:12] <dobey> bah
[22:12] <dobey> haha
[22:12] <WildFox> i wrote the answer
[22:12] <WildFox> don't be frightend
[22:12] <WildFox> that's one of the devs
[22:12] <dobey> frightened?
[22:12] <Uraeus> WildFox: what exactly is GNOME's famous FUD machine?
[22:12] <WildFox> btw
[22:12] <WildFox> don't ask me
[22:12] <dobey> <- very far from frightened
[22:12] <WildFox> i am no GNOME flamer
[22:12] <dobey> Uraeus: esd probably
[22:12] <WildFox> i like both projects, KDE and GNOME
[22:13] <wtay> thinking...
[22:13] <Uraeus> dobey: yes ESD is so bad it is FUD in itself :)
[22:13] <wtay> I tend to agree
[22:13] <wtay> ..communication "between" plugins might be better
[22:13] <dobey> Uraeus: bah, esd works for me
[22:14] <WildFox> good
[22:14] <wtay> WildFox: omega is the project leader, I'm not sure what he thinks about all this
[22:14] <WildFox> wtay: that's what i actually meant
[22:15] <wtay> ok
[22:15] <WildFox> oh
[22:15] <WildFox> i said one of them
[22:15] <WildFox> you are
[22:15] <WildFox> one
[22:15] <WildFox> hmm
[22:15] <WildFox> i invite that person
[22:15] <wtay> I have much less vision then omega has...
[22:15] Njaard (charless at arleno2.dsl.sirius.com) joined #gstreamer.
[22:15] <WildFox> Charles will come
[22:15] <WildFox> :)
[22:15] <Njaard> charles will come
[22:15] <wtay> yo Njaard
[22:15] <dobey> oh god
[22:15] <WildFox> Njaard: hi
[22:15] <Njaard> hi :)
[22:16] <Uraeus> hi Njaard
[22:16] <WildFox> Njaard: here are the famous core-dev's i speakt of :)
[22:16] <WildFox> s/speakt/spoke/
[22:16] <wtay> WildFox: this channel is logged, omega will read it too...
[22:16] <WildFox> wtay: good!
[22:16] <Njaard> er, ok
[22:16] <dobey> wildfox/njaard: what countries are you from?
[22:16] <WildFox> dobey: Germany
[22:16] Action: dobey just curious
[22:16] <WildFox> you ?
[22:16] <dobey> us
[22:17] <WildFox> ah
[22:17] <Njaard> dobey: I'm in the states too
[22:17] <Njaard> well, re. WildFox's email, why doesn't gstreamer just, er, merge with arts? ;)
[22:17] <dobey> Njaard: are you a kde hax0r?
[22:18] <WildFox> yep he is
[22:18] <Njaard> being that arts has the design, and gstreamer has the speed, and we need more developers big time :)
[22:18] <Njaard> dobey: hax0r is right ;)
[22:18] <WildFox> yep
[22:18] <wtay> Njaard: yeah why don't you code it? :-)
[22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: i sayed that!
[22:18] <dobey> jesus, i can see this is gonna go nowhere
[22:18] <WildFox> but
[22:18] <WildFox> ask themself
[22:18] <Njaard> wtay: I'm only one man :)
[22:18] <wtay> me too...
[22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: as i said
[22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: first we need an arts plugin system
[22:19] <Njaard> arts HAS a plugin system
[22:19] <WildFox> why not use gstreamers?
[22:19] <WildFox> would be great
[22:19] <WildFox> so ?
[22:19] <WildFox> it's more frickled than stable
[22:19] <Njaard> so why not get the gstreamer developers to optimize the arts archetecture
[22:19] <Njaard> arts is plenty stable
[22:19] <WildFox> wow
[22:19] <Njaard> not to mention much better designed
[22:19] <wtay> Njaard: I'm not a C++ man...
[22:19] <WildFox> oh oh oh
[22:19] Action: WildFox silent
[22:19] Action: Njaard notes that he feels funny talking about this here :)
[22:20] <Njaard> wtay: it's not very difficult :)
[22:20] <WildFox> more easy, i'd say
[22:20] <wtay> Njaard: I know, I did some projects in it, I just don't like it
[22:20] Action: dobey notes not to install kde, ever, again
[22:20] <Njaard> no, you don't know it
[22:20] Action: Njaard is hardly an average KDE developer
[22:20] <Njaard> I'm much more mean
[22:20] Action: Uraeus notes the degree of diplomacy here is impressive :)
[22:20] <WildFox> dobey: hm
[22:20] <Njaard> and I've been very bitter lately
[22:20] <WildFox> dobey: you can use GNOME
[22:20] <Njaard> so WildFox really chose the wrong person :)
[22:21] <WildFox> ;)
[22:21] <WildFox> stw's not there
[22:21] <WildFox> and _THAT_ would be a real war then
[22:21] <WildFox> :)
[22:21] <Njaard> hehe
[22:21] <Njaard> you folks wouldn't stand a chance ;)
[22:21] <WildFox> arts will be standard in GNOME in near future, dobey
[22:21] <Uraeus> actually you are aware that Stefan is speaking at GUADEC?
[22:21] <WildFox> yes
[22:21] <WildFox> he'll present aRts
[22:21] Action: Njaard beats up DMA
[22:21] <wtay> aRts is for audio...
[22:22] <dobey> WildFox: where did you get this info?
[22:22] <WildFox> yes
[22:22] <Njaard> aRts is extendible
[22:22] <Njaard> (very)
[22:22] <WildFox> that's the problem
[22:22] <Njaard> shit
[22:22] <WildFox> dobey: gnome dev @ cebit
[22:22] Action: Njaard accidentally exited noatun
[22:22] <wtay> aRts handles plugins at a very low level
[22:22] <WildFox> Njaard: hehe
[22:22] <dobey> my god you people are silly
[22:22] <Njaard> you see, I had it running for a couple days
[22:22] <wtay> like: add two samples and stuff
[22:22] <WildFox> Njaard: hehe
[22:22] <vektor> njaard!
[22:22] <WildFox> wtay: and?
[22:22] <vektor> sup dude?
[22:22] <WildFox> huh
[22:23] <WildFox> you know each other? :)
[22:23] Action: dobey notes he will never use arts
[22:23] <Njaard> because the binary I had installed had been more recent compiles :)
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: !!!!
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: ouf-oh
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: where've you been buddy? :)
[22:23] <wtay> GStreamer is more high level...
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: that's a big flame now
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: why do you say that?
[22:23] <vektor> Njaard: I've been doing dvd stuff man.
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: niice :)
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: if gstreamer + arts is "merged" what then?
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: /me mentions something about an arts playobject
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: you wouldn#t use it
[22:23] <dobey> WildFox: because like distros, all current audio servers suck
[22:23] <dobey> not arts, no
[22:23] <WildFox> no
[22:23] <WildFox> ever tried arts?
[22:24] <Njaard> programming for it is nice
[22:24] <Njaard> it'd be even nicer of stw wrote, er, docs :)
[22:24] <dobey> besides, if you want to uses gstreamer on arts, write a freakin plugin for gstreamer to output to arts
[22:24] <vektor> dobey: can you spell latency?
[22:24] <wtay> dobey: yes
[22:24] <dobey> it's not like you need to combine the two here
[22:24] <WildFox> no
[22:24] <WildFox> that would be fscking syncing problems
[22:24] <WildFox> think about it
[22:24] <WildFox> gstreamer playing sound
[22:24] <WildFox> ermm
[22:24] <WildFox> gstreamer playing video
[22:24] <dobey> vektor: can you spell extensibility and componentization?
[22:24] <WildFox> but routing sound to arts
[22:24] <WildFox> *OUF*
[22:24] <WildFox> no sync at all
[22:24] <dobey> latency my ass
[22:25] <Njaard> no, arts can play video, it is THAT extensible
[22:25] <wtay> WildFox: no prob, the samples have a timestamp
[22:25] <WildFox> wtay: let's say arts lags horrible
[22:25] <WildFox> what then?
[22:25] <wtay> both sink play the media at the given time
[22:25] <vektor> dobey: Sorry dude, if you're writing a multitracker, you want both lots of plugins, and low latency. That means choosing one plugin architecture.
[22:25] Action: dobey notes a "low-end" computer is a pIII 500 with 128Mb ram, and a sound blaster live
[22:25] <WildFox> wtay: grml
[22:25] <wtay> WildFox: make it lag less then
[22:25] <WildFox> so
[22:25] <WildFox> and that's why we ask you :)
[22:25] <vektor> dobey: Have you ever tried to write, say, a MIDI sequencer using a P3-733? You still care about latency.
[22:25] <WildFox> you have the speed
[22:26] <wtay> WildFox: we don't hav anything that requires low latency
[22:26] <WildFox> less dropouts?
[22:26] <dobey> vektor: the amount of latency that will occur will be so minute it's not noticeable
[22:27] <WildFox> Njaard: but you have to say that mpeglib is _frickled_ into aRts
[22:27] Action: dobey notes he listens to oggs at 250kbps over nfs in xmms with non-noticeable latency
[22:27] <Njaard> what is frickled? :)
[22:27] <dobey> OUTPUTTING TO ESD
[22:27] <Njaard> dobey: NFS buffers
[22:27] <vektor> dobey: There's a big difference between listening to mp3s and having something sync to an external MIDI clock dude.
[22:27] <Njaard> so that causes no latency
[22:27] <vektor> dobey: Sorry.
[22:27] <vektor> Anyways, I shouldn't have brought that up.
[22:27] <wtay> ont thing at a time
[22:28] <wtay> s/ont/one
[22:28] <Njaard> aRts can do MIDI hardware input, with a plugin
[22:28] <Njaard> (!)
[22:28] <dobey> vektor: and where do external midi clocks come in to a freakin sound server on which the primary goal is to watch dvds and listen to internet audio?
[22:28] <vektor> Njaard: I don't know why you don't like gstreamer :)
[22:28] <wtay> we can't do that yet
[22:28] <Njaard> vektor: I hate anything with a G
[22:28] <Njaard> and writing anything like this in C is stupid, when you have C++
[22:28] <vektor> Njaard: And I think you should grow up.
[22:28] <vektor> Njaard: Big time.
[22:28] <dobey> my god i always get bombarded by ignorant people
[22:28] <Njaard> vektor: I was kidding about the G, actually ;)
[22:29] <vektor> dobey: Well, aRts for one is built with latency in mind. gstreamer isn't.
[22:29] <dobey> bah, gstreamer is also not part of kde 2 or gnome 1.4 for a reason
[22:29] <vektor> In fact, the two are completely orthogonal.
[22:29] Action: Njaard mentions the Rt in aRts :)
[22:29] <Uraeus> people, please keep the advocacy switch off, in this crowd it is worthless
[22:29] Action: dobey goes back to gnome 1.4
[22:29] <wtay> we hope to avoid it at some point by optimising data transfer and writing straight to the DMA buffers
[22:30] <Njaard> Uraeus: s/people/Njaard/ :)
[22:30] <vektor> Does gstreamer want to become a sound server?
[22:30] <wtay> I think aRts is similar to overflow
[22:30] <vektor> Or, just a codec engine?
[22:30] <Uraeus> Njaard: I was trying to be diplomatic :)
[22:30] <vektor> I was under the impression gstreamer was mostly a codec architecture.
[22:31] <wtay> more like scheduling middleware
[22:31] <Njaard> Uraeus: oh, ok :)
[22:31] <dobey> gstreamer is not intended to be a sound server
[22:31] <vektor> Right.
[22:31] <dobey> that is pretty obvious
[22:31] <wtay> indeed
[22:31] <vektor> So, then it's perfect for having as an input to aRts, which is a sound server.
[22:31] <wtay> not for me anyway
[22:31] <vektor> End of discussion.
[22:31] <vektor> Right?
[22:31] <dobey> you people are rediculously arguing over something non-important
[22:31] <wtay> vektor: problem solved <g>
[22:32] <vektor> Sorry, I kinda jumped into this discussion when I saw Njaard. :)
[22:32] <dobey> god, kde-* lists are almost as bad as debian-devel
[22:32] <wtay> seriously, I would give a aRts plugin in gstreamer a shot myself...
[22:33] <Njaard> vektor: heh
[22:33] <Njaard> vektor: are you with gstreamer?
[22:33] <wtay> xmms was pretty easy to assimilate
[22:33] <dobey> just write the plugin and quit whining
[22:33] <WildFox> dobey: hey
[22:33] <vektor> Njaard: No, I'm with 'exams' right now.
[22:33] <Njaard> vektor: fun :)
[22:33] <vektor> Sure.
[22:33] <WildFox> dobey: aren't you flaming ?
[22:33] <dobey> WildFox: not yet
[22:33] <WildFox> dobey: you always say something for _ALL_ kde*
[22:34] <wtay> and then write an aRts plugin using gstreamer...
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: did i say anything rude against GNOME ?
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: no
[22:34] <Njaard> why not write an arts plugin that can load gstreamer plugins
[22:34] <dobey> i'm just saying you people are so worried about shit that makes absolutely no sense
[22:34] <Njaard> wouldn't that make much more sense?
[22:34] <Njaard> not to mention faster
[22:34] <dobey> Njaard: god you're sick
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: ie?
[22:34] <wtay> Njaard: could do that
[22:34] <vektor> Njaard: Sure, why not? You're the one who flamed this idea on kde-multimedia.
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: WHAT?
[22:34] <WildFox> whop
[22:34] <dobey> let's just write a moniker for kparts to load gstreamer plugins
[22:34] <WildFox> s/WHAT/what/
[22:34] <Njaard> I flame any idea that begins with a G ;)
[22:35] <WildFox> it's actually better to load gstreamer plugins
[22:35] Action: Njaard needs to stop with that
[22:35] <wtay> GNU?
[22:35] <dobey> Njaard: figures
[22:35] <vektor> wtay: njaard doesn't like GNU either.
[22:35] <WildFox> instead of creating a playobject-wrapper
[22:35] <WildFox> . . .
[22:35] <WildFox> imho
[22:35] <Njaard> dobey: arts is unrelated to kparts
[22:35] <Njaard> arts just links to libstdc++
[22:35] <dobey> just go back to using windows and media player
[22:35] <dobey> god
[22:35] <WildFox> huh ?
[22:35] <WildFox> calm down, guy
[22:35] <WildFox> we want a constructive discussion
[22:36] <WildFox> no war
[22:36] <Njaard> not me :)
[22:36] <WildFox> am i right ?
[22:36] <Njaard> I want it destructive
[22:36] <Njaard> as destructive as possible
[22:36] <WildFox> ?*
[22:36] <Njaard> :D
[22:36] <WildFox> gr
[22:36] <Njaard> heh
[22:36] <dobey> Njaard: yeah, i can see, you must just be a german living in america
[22:36] <wtay> I wanna create a gst plugin using aRts to handle the audio..
[22:36] <Njaard> dobey: I'm not :)
[22:36] <WildFox> dobey: ah and now you say sth. agains me ?
[22:36] <WildFox> nice
[22:36] <WildFox> wtay. good one
[22:36] <dobey> god lighten up people
[22:37] <dobey> wtay: good, end of discussion, problem solved, everyone can go home now
[22:37] <Uraeus> WildFox: I think 'cooperation' will hapen due to individual effort, for our part a aRTS plugin is planned
[22:37] <Njaard> well, personally, in *my opinion* gsteamer is useless, due to aRts
[22:37] <WildFox> not at all
[22:37] <WildFox> just one point
[22:37] <dobey> yeah, well, arts is useless too
[22:37] <Njaard> in your opinion :)
[22:37] <vektor> Njaard: Why?
[22:37] <Uraeus> Njaard: yes, and in our opinion aRTS is redundant :)
[22:37] <WildFox> we didn'T rewrite arts core to be _PURE_ c++
[22:37] <WildFox> so that nobody uses it
[22:38] <wtay> Njaard: in my opinion both projects have different goals so they can both coexist
[22:38] <Njaard> well, aRts does what gstreamer does, and more
[22:38] <Njaard> now, I admit, aRts isn't as mature as gstreamer
[22:38] <Njaard> but only because it's trying to do more
[22:38] <dobey> oh my god
[22:38] <Uraeus> Njaard: like what?
[22:38] <Njaard> wtay: I see aRts as a superset of gstreamer
[22:38] Action: dobey gets the cluestick ready
[22:38] <Njaard> Uraeus: like what of what specifically?
[22:38] <dobey> or the LART-gun, whichever you prefer
[22:38] <Njaard> lart gun would be nice
[22:38] <Njaard> :)
[22:39] <wtay> Njaard: tell me how you are going to handle the different media formats for example
[22:39] <dobey> would you like it in the head, the chest, or elsewhere?
[22:39] <Njaard> wtay: well, aRts already can play: mpeg-1, mpeg-2 (lousily), mikmod, modplug, mp3, oggvorbis
[22:39] <Uraeus> WildFox: I don't think bringing Njaard here was a big step forward :)
[22:39] <Njaard> writing mikmod one, for example, was an evening, and bout 200LOC
[22:39] Action: Njaard tends to agree with Uraeus
[22:39] <WildFox> Uraeus: yep :/
[22:40] <WildFox> Uraeus: i hoped it would be
[22:40] <WildFox> hope_D_
[22:40] <WildFox> :)
[22:40] <dobey> so let's get rid of him
[22:40] vektor_ (vektor at HSE-Kitchener-ppp3505027.sympatico.ca) joined #gstreamer.
[22:40] <Njaard> now you've just given up
[22:40] <Njaard> heh
[22:40] <dobey> Njaard: nah, i gave up on you way before
[22:40] <Njaard> heh
[22:40] <Njaard> well, you know where to reach me for flames.
[22:40] Njaard (charless at arleno2.dsl.sirius.com) left #gstreamer (KVirc 2.1.0 '3 megabytes and growing').
[22:41] <WildFox> shit
[22:41] <WildFox> sorry guys
[22:41] <WildFox> i really thought he would be constructive
[22:41] <Uraeus> give up? I think convincing the Afgan government to save Budhas is easier than having a pragmatic conversation with Njaard
[22:41] <wtay> no prob
[22:41] <Uraeus> :)
[22:41] <dobey> haha
[22:41] <wtay> Uraeus: hehe
[22:42] Action: dobey tends to ignore kde people
[22:42] <dobey> at least irl anywya
[22:42] <WildFox> ouf
[22:42] <wtay> let's pretend he enjoys himself...
[22:42] <WildFox> that's shit
[22:42] <WildFox> don't ignore me :)
[22:42] wtay (wim at 195.162.214.198) left irc: Read error to wtay[195.162.214.198]: EOF from client
[22:42] <dobey> why not? you use kde
[22:42] <Uraeus> WildFox: I think what you where trying to do was good, but know that many has failed before you :(
[22:42] wtay (wim at cable-195-162-214-198.upc.chello.be) joined #gstreamer.
[22:42] <wtay> uhm
[22:42] <WildFox> dobey: ?
[22:43] <WildFox> you ignore me for using kde ?
[22:43] <WildFox> you ignore me for using kde ? (!)
[22:43] <wtay> WildFox: you're one of the good guys :)
[22:43] <dobey> WildFox: sure, why not?
[22:43] <WildFox> wtay: :)
[22:43] <WildFox> wtay: you too ;)
[22:43] <Uraeus> WildFox: don't take dobey to seriously we don't :)
[22:43] <WildFox> good
[22:43] <WildFox> :)
[22:43] <dobey> Uraeus: if you don't now, you will in the future :-)
[22:44] <Uraeus> hehe
[22:44] <dobey> eh, as long as you aren't a troll, i could care less really
[22:44] <Uraeus> I think writing the aRTS plugin is a nice first step, and a step which the ambition level is within reach
[22:45] <wtay> Uraeus: yes
[22:45] <Uraeus> more abitious targets just end up in demotivating flamewars
[22:46] <dobey> yeah, they do if you tell people about them
[22:46] <wtay> is aRts C++?
[22:46] <dobey> anyone using icewm?
[22:46] <wtay> stupid question...
[22:46] <dobey> wtay: yes, sadly enough all of kde is
[22:46] <Uraeus> wtay: yes
[22:47] <wtay> might be a nice idea to actually try a C++ plugin in gstreamer...
[22:48] <dobey> wtay: realmedia would be a good one to go with...
[22:48] <Uraeus> or maybe the aRTS plugin itself
[22:48] <Uraeus> WildFox: is the C api for aRTS ready?
[22:49] <wtay> Uraeus: I have more confidence in gstreamer using aRts then vise versa
[22:49] <Uraeus> WildFox: since I seem to rember one being made
[22:49] <Uraeus> wtay: that my friend is my belief too :)
[22:50] <dobey> yes, they are ass-backward
[22:50] <wtay> Uraeus: we are so civilized aren't we? :-)
[22:50] <WildFox> yep
[22:50] <WildFox> it is ready
[22:50] <Uraeus> dobey: you can stop flaming now Njaard has left :)
[22:51] <WildFox> c++ is that easy
[22:51] <WildFox> just a question
[22:51] <WildFox> why do you use C ?
[22:51] <dobey> Uraeus: i wasn't flaming fool, i'm saying all the kde-anal people want to do things wrong
[22:51] <WildFox> ethic ?
[22:51] <Uraeus> WildFox: it was co-developed between Stefan and Tim wasn't it?
[22:51] <WildFox> Tim ?
[22:51] Action: dobey notes kparts doesn't even have an out-of-process component system
[22:51] <WildFox> stefan...yes
[22:51] <Uraeus> TIm Janik
[22:51] <wtay> WildFox: probably because we all think C++ sucks
[22:51] <WildFox> dobey: ?
[22:51] <WildFox> dobey: and that is ?
[22:51] <WildFox> wtay: ok why
[22:52] <dobey> WildFox: the component being run in a separate process
[22:52] <Uraeus> urk, please not a language discussion
[22:52] <wtay> WildFox: C++ is a OO hacked version of C
[22:52] <WildFox> hmm
[22:52] <WildFox> but it makes things easier
[22:52] <WildFox> ok
[22:52] <WildFox> that's enough, right
[22:52] <Uraeus> wtay, Wildfox: lets compromise, rewrite both GNOME and KDE in ObjectiveC
[22:52] <wtay> WildFox: ever done any real OO programming? like Smalltalk or (ouch) JAVA?
[22:52] <WildFox> i don't wanna convert anyone
[22:52] <dobey> easier for certain definition of easy
[22:52] Action: WildFox loves c++ but also does c
[22:53] <wtay> I also like the pure OO features of C++ though
[22:53] <WildFox> classes
[22:53] <WildFox> inheritance
[22:53] <WildFox> ..
[22:53] <dobey> OO is one thing, evil is another
[22:53] <wtay> WildFox: sorta
[22:53] <Uraeus> zzzZZZzZZZzZZZZzzzzz
[22:53] <wtay> WildFox: multiple inheritance is evil
[22:54] <wtay> properties and introspection are nice too...
[22:54] <wtay> WildFox: I'm just more confident with C, that's all
[22:55] <WildFox> hehe
[22:55] <WildFox> can be, yes
[22:55] <WildFox> but sometimes it's also nice
[22:55] <WildFox> dobey: one beg
[22:55] <WildFox> dobey: could you pls _STOP_ flaming me...kde...germany...etc..
[22:55] <wtay> WildFox: Gtk+ has a nice object model too
[22:55] <WildFox> ok
[22:55] <WildFox> no problem :)
[22:55] <dobey> jesus
[22:56] <WildFox> dobey: i mean it for real
[22:56] <WildFox> i didn't do anything to you!
[22:56] <WildFox> btw..how old are you?
[22:56] <wtay> dobey: are you going to add some added value to this channel soon?
[22:56] <dobey> WildFox: have you ever met me in real life?
[22:56] <WildFox> no
[22:57] <dobey> ok, then *thwack*
[22:57] <Uraeus> wtay: do Thomas know his ALSA plugin is broken?
[22:57] <wtay> Uraeus: not sure..
[22:57] <dobey> WildFox: irc != irl
[22:57] <wtay> Uraeus: I didn't mail him or something
[22:57] <WildFox> dobey: i know
[22:57] <Uraeus> wtay: when you write the next list summary remember to put it in
[22:57] <WildFox> dobey: but how old are you ?
[22:57] <wtay> Uraeus: I'll wait just a little longer until the caps thing settles down
[22:58] <wtay> Uraeus: oh yes, the summary :-)
[22:58] <Uraeus> hehe
[22:58] <dobey> WildFox: apparently you can't tell the difference, and my age doesn't matter, let's just say i'm very experienced, and you need to have a beer and lighten up
[22:58] <WildFox> you hate me right ?
[22:59] <WildFox> because i use kde
[22:59] <WildFox> ...
[22:59] <WildFox> ok
[22:59] <WildFox> noticed down
[22:59] Action: Uraeus shudders
[22:59] <WildFox> dobey: and you guy
[22:59] <wtay> dobey: I don't like your attitude..
[22:59] <WildFox> dobey: should notice that there are actually ppl who have nothing against GNOME and are KDE users!
[22:59] <dobey> WildFox: i'm just fine
[23:00] <dobey> ok, now, i might not be so fine, since you can't read what i type apparently
[23:00] Action: dobey opens up dict:/sarcasm
[23:00] <Uraeus> dobey: please stop
[23:01] <dobey> fuck
[23:01] <Uraeus> WildFox: please ignore dobey
[23:01] <dobey> now you guys are just being cruel
[23:01] <Uraeus> dobey: you should know that by now :)
[23:02] <WildFox> Uraeus: ok
[23:02] <Uraeus> WildFox: appreciate it, think both I and wtay was developing and ulcer :)
[23:04] <dobey> anyway, since everyone is being ignorant now, i'll go back to work
[23:04] <Uraeus> wtay: had you forgotten about the summaries already ;)
[23:05] <wtay> Uraeus: of course not, I just don't have any news :-)
[23:05] <Uraeus> wtay: your not a journalist I see :)
[23:05] <wtay> Uraeus: hehe
[23:05] <wtay> Uraeus: I guess you can write a book of todays events...
[23:05] <WildFox> :)
[23:06] <Uraeus> wtay: I could, life and times at #GStreamer, biggest thing since Gone with the Wind
[23:06] <wtay> :)
[23:06] <Uraeus> WildFox: I live in norway, but my father family is german, so Ich spricht ein bitchen deutch
[23:06] <WildFox> ah
[23:06] <WildFox> i saw your real name :)
[23:07] <WildFox> Uraeus: you are no troll ;)
[23:07] <Uraeus> WildFox: no, I stopped trolling when Qt went GPL :)
[23:07] <WildFox> really ?
[23:07] <Uraeus> yup
[23:08] <WildFox> why?
[23:08] <Uraeus> cause after that KDE wasn't a threat to free software anymore in my view
[23:08] <dobey> heh
[23:09] <Uraeus> it was just like a lot of other free software something I didn't use much personally
[23:09] <Uraeus> so no need to 'fight' it
[23:10] <Uraeus> WildFox: that suprise you?
[23:11] <WildFox> yes
[23:11] <Uraeus> why?
[23:11] <WildFox> never ever saw anyone who wants the QPL back :)
[23:11] <Uraeus> I don't
[23:11] <dobey> i want the qpl back
[23:12] <Uraeus> WildFox: you misunderstood if you thought I said that
[23:12] <WildFox> hmm
[23:12] <WildFox> i don't understand that ..anyway :)
[23:12] <Uraeus> WildFox: I said I stopped being against KDE when Qt when GPL
[23:13] <Uraeus> s/when/went/
[23:13] <WildFox> ah!
[23:13] <WildFox> okay
[23:13] <WildFox> ARRGL!
[23:13] <WildFox> of course sorry
[23:13] <WildFox> "<Uraeus> WildFox: no, I stopped trolling when Qt went GPL :)"
[23:13] <WildFox> i thought
[23:13] <WildFox> you meant using qt
[23:13] <WildFox> by trolling :)
[23:13] <WildFox> we always call using qt "trolling" ...in germany
[23:14] <Uraeus> hehe
[23:15] <Uraeus> WildFox: so what exactly do you code on?
[23:16] <WildFox> hmm
[23:16] <WildFox> Kaboodle, some noatun hacks in the past
[23:16] <WildFox> kafka, kbattleship
[23:16] <WildFox> kjs + khtml
[23:16] <WildFox> kisdn...etc..
[23:17] <wtay> k <g>
[23:17] <WildFox> *g* ? :)
[23:17] <Uraeus> WildFox: you help out where needed, instead of focusing on one project?
[23:17] <WildFox> hmm
[23:17] <WildFox> mostly both
[23:17] <WildFox> :)
[23:17] <Uraeus> hehe
[23:17] <WildFox> kbattleship is "my" game
[23:17] <WildFox> worked on it 4 months
[23:17] <WildFox> ready now
[23:18] <WildFox> kafka is a _VERY_ _VERY_ time-extensive and big project
[23:18] <WildFox> kaboodle is a lean-mean-media player, which you can embedd in konqueror
[23:18] <WildFox> i wrote the embedding part
[23:18] <WildFox> kafka btw. is a WYSIWYG HTML Editor
[23:18] <wtay> nice
[23:18] <WildFox> producing nice html code
[23:18] <WildFox> no fscking shit like frontpage netobjects fusion
[23:18] <WildFox> etc..
[23:18] <WildFox> no hacks
[23:18] <WildFox> using DOM impl of khtml
[23:19] <WildFox> that's why also khtml + kjs
[23:19] <dobey> eh
[23:19] <Uraeus> WildFox: that is what all WYSISYG editors say, but I have never seen one who don't produce cruddy html yet :)
[23:19] <WildFox> Uraeus: same for me
[23:19] <WildFox> that's why i work on kafka
[23:19] <WildFox> :)
[23:19] <WildFox> all html editor fsck up your own written code
[23:20] <Uraeus> good luck, if you succeed maybe kafka will be the first KDE prog I use :)
[23:20] <WildFox> but kafka reparses the code _you_ wrote
[23:20] <WildFox> and rebuilds the dom tree
[23:20] <WildFox> so that you can actually see what you wrote in plain html
[23:20] <WildFox> not to forget the auto-indention
[23:20] <djcb> for nice, compliant html, use latte + tidy
[23:20] <WildFox> etc..
[23:20] <WildFox> djcb: that's true
[23:20] Action: WildFox uses vim :)
[23:21] <WildFox> but it creates valid html code
[23:21] <WildFox> (builtin w3c-validator-requester :)
[23:21] <Uraeus> cool
[23:22] <WildFox> but very early dev
[23:22] <WildFox> we even have a complet working history backend
[23:22] <WildFox> including HTML history
[23:22] <WildFox> cvs history
[23:22] <WildFox> webdav history
[23:22] <WildFox> etc..
[23:22] <WildFox> and of course a plugin system
[23:23] <WildFox> small core
[23:23] <WildFox> many plugins
[23:23] <Uraeus> heh, the story of all new linux developments :)
[23:23] <WildFox> :)
[23:23] <WildFox> yep
[23:23] <WildFox> a must
[23:23] <wtay> cool
[23:24] <WildFox> before i worked on kafka
[23:24] <WildFox> it had nothing
[23:24] <WildFox> the 2 things they had
[23:24] <WildFox> were directly linked in
[23:24] <WildFox> you know
[23:24] <WildFox> changed one header..recompiling the whole shit
[23:24] <WildFox> but now
[23:24] <WildFox> BC interface
[23:24] <WildFox> just recompile
[23:24] <WildFox> kafka/kafka/plugins/table
[23:24] Action: Uraeus watches WildFox sing his own praise <g>
[23:24] <WildFox> hehe
[23:25] <WildFox> oh i love that really :)
[23:25] <Uraeus> me too actually :)
[23:25] <WildFox> hehe
[23:27] <Uraeus> WildFox: are you sure Njaard will not get you kicked out of KDE-multimedia for hanging out with the evil enemy :)
[23:27] <WildFox> lol
[23:27] <WildFox> :)
[23:27] <WildFox> no
[23:27] <WildFox> ROTFL!
[23:28] <WildFox> i love the first april
[23:28] <WildFox> kdenetwork/knewsticker win386embed.cpp,NONE,1.1
[23:28] <WildFox> Author: raabe
[23:28] <WildFox> Sun Apr 1 21:25:58 UTC 2001
[23:28] <WildFox> In directory cvs.kde.org:/var/tmp/cvs-serv10717
[23:28] <WildFox> Added Files:
[23:28] <WildFox> win386embed.cpp
[23:28] <WildFox> Log Message:
[23:28] <WildFox> - Added support to load Win386 DLLs to exchange the news scroller widget
[23:28] <WildFox>
[23:28] <WildFox> cat win386embed.cpp
[23:28] <WildFox> Gotcha! :-p
[23:28] <WildFox> nikoz at Niko:~/Old/kdenetwork/knewsticker$
[23:28] <WildFox> ..
[23:28] <WildFox> :)
[23:28] <WildFox> anyone read dot.kde.org ?
[23:28] <WildFox> we will replace all c++ code
[23:28] <WildFox> by html + javascript
[23:28] <dobey> try not to
[23:28] <WildFox> our QPainter will be replaced by gecko
[23:28] <Uraeus> WildFox: from time to time, but to much anti-GNOME sentiment
[23:28] <WildFox> so that it runs faster
[23:28] <WildFox> :)
[23:29] <WildFox> don't think we are anti-GNOME
[23:29] <WildFox> we just ie. removed offensive screenies on the koffice pages
[23:29] <wtay> WildFox: just take a look at gnotices someday...
[23:29] <WildFox> anti-gnome ones
[23:29] <WildFox> wtay: what is there?
[23:29] <WildFox> stupid _USERS_
[23:30] <WildFox> no devs would ever write that
[23:30] <wtay> WildFox: lots of anti-GNOME guys presumably KDE users
[23:30] <Uraeus> WildFox: KDE trolls in abundance :)
[23:30] <wtay> WildFox: true
[23:30] <WildFox> i assume dobey is a user
[23:30] <WildFox> ;)
[23:30] <Uraeus> WildFox: true, but I do feel that recent KDE announcements has had a tendency to give out small jabbs at GNOME
[23:31] <dobey> WildFox: you assume wrong
[23:31] <WildFox> dobey: i was joking!
[23:31] <WildFox> Uraeus: didn't see that
[23:31] ajmitch (me at p22-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gstreamer.
[23:31] <Uraeus> WildFox: a good example is all the GNOME Foundation stuff you guys have been putting out
[23:31] <WildFox> what was it ?
[23:31] <WildFox> ajmitch: HI
[23:31] <ajmitch> hi
[23:31] <ajmitch> hey WildFox
[23:31] <dobey> Uraeus: did you read that theKompany article on linux.com?
[23:32] <Uraeus> dobey: yes
[23:32] <Uraeus> it is another good example
[23:32] <dobey> the ceo mentioned ximian 3 times as much as kde
[23:32] <wtay> yo aj
[23:32] chillywilly (baumannd at d144.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gstreamer.
[23:32] <wtay> hi chillywilly
[23:32] <chillywilly> hey there
[23:32] <ajmitch> the trolls have arrived...
[23:32] <chillywilly> aaah!
[23:33] <chillywilly> jk
[23:33] <ajmitch> chillywilly: behave, please ;)
[23:33] Action: WildFox trolling over the floor laughing
[23:33] <WildFox> ;)
[23:33] <chillywilly> just toss that silly ass arts
[23:33] <ajmitch> WildFox: so what things are you looking at doing, btw?
[23:33] <WildFox> ajma: ?
[23:33] <WildFox> ajmitch: ?
[23:33] <Uraeus> ajmitch: he is shippinh Njaard to Afghanistan to learn diplomacy
[23:34] <ajmitch> LOL
[23:34] <WildFox> atm Kafka
[23:34] <ajmitch> Njaard can be a tad hot-headed ;)
[23:34] <chillywilly> Njaard needs an attitude readjustment
[23:34] <ajmitch> WildFox: what are your plans with gstreamer at the moment?
[23:34] <WildFox> hehe
[23:34] <wtay> ajmitch: read the IRC logs tommorow and laugh :)
[23:34] <WildFox> arts + gstreamer = :)
[23:34] <chillywilly> cool
[23:34] <chillywilly> no more mpeglib
[23:35] <WildFox> right
[23:35] <ajmitch> wtay: i read logs from earlier
[23:35] <WildFox> a real plugin system :)
[23:35] <chillywilly> hehe
[23:35] <chillywilly> noatun gonna use it?
[23:35] <ajmitch> WildFox: Njaard is ever so slightly against it, judgin from kde-multimedia mails ;)
[23:35] <WildFox> noatun uses arts
[23:35] <WildFox> arts will use gstreamer plugins :)
[23:35] <chillywilly> ah too bad for him then
[23:35] <ajmitch> hehe
[23:35] <wtay> ajmitch: were you here with Njaard?
[23:35] <ajmitch> wtay: nope
[23:36] <ajmitch> wtay: did he visit?
[23:36] <wtay> ajmitch: yes
[23:36] <Uraeus> ajmitch: yeah, he charmed us blind
[23:36] <wtay> ajmitch: hence the fun you'll have reading the logs...
[23:36] <ajmitch> hehe, how bad were the flames?
[23:36] <dobey> haha
[23:36] <chillywilly> WildFox: you remember me talking about a scrapbook app a ling time ago when I used ot hang out in #kde?
[23:36] <wtay> ajmitch: pretty stupid..
[23:37] <WildFox> chillywilly: no
[23:37] <chillywilly> oh, nevermind then
[23:37] <wtay> he just didn't *want* to listen nor cooperate at all, so sad..
[23:37] vektor_ (vektor at HSE-Kitchener-ppp3505027.sympatico.ca) left irc: too bad the scene is dead
[23:37] <ajmitch> wtay: well, it is Njaard...
[23:37] <ajmitch> he has a hatred for anything that starts with a g
[23:38] <WildFox> gideon
[23:38] <WildFox> :)
[23:38] <ajmitch> hehe
[23:38] <Uraeus> ajmitch: germany?
[23:38] <WildFox> lol
[23:38] <ajmitch> Uraeus: heh
[23:38] <wtay> Uraeus: oh yes, he'll find a reason for that too :)
[23:38] <WildFox> gcc
[23:38] <WildFox> :)
[23:38] <ajmitch> i have to go, have just been reminded of a lecture in a few minutes :(
[23:38] <ajmitch> WildFox: all GNU tools, in fact
[23:38] <wtay> ok
[23:38] <Uraeus> see ya
[23:39] <wtay> cya
[23:39] ajmitch (me at p22-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: http://www.freedevelopers.net
[23:39] <WildFox> by
[23:39] <WildFox> e
[23:39] <Uraeus> to late :)
[23:39] <WildFox> wow
[23:39] <WildFox> am i tired
[23:39] <dobey> hrmm, if he hates germany, his anal-retentive kde-loving makes no sense
[23:39] <Uraeus> dobey: he calls it kermany
[23:39] <WildFox> kermit
[23:39] <dobey> oh god
[23:39] <WildFox> the frog
[23:39] <WildFox> :)
[23:39] <dobey> does he use suse too?
[23:40] <WildFox> no
[23:40] <dobey> SuSE KmBH?
[23:40] <dobey> heh
[23:40] <Uraeus> dobey: don't attack Suse they have some cure female employees :)
[23:40] <WildFox> not really
[23:40] <Uraeus> s/cure/cute/
[23:40] <WildFox> what shall i do w/o SuSE?
[23:40] <dobey> uraues: so? their distro sucks ass
[23:40] <chillywilly> use debian
[23:41] <WildFox> i am on debian unstable
[23:41] <WildFox> but suse pays for me
[23:41] <chillywilly> oh, ok
[23:41] <WildFox> evertime i use a train
[23:41] <WildFox> ie the paid me 2 days on the cebit
[23:41] <WildFox> train
[23:41] <WildFox> hotel
[23:41] <WildFox> cebit
[23:41] <WildFox> train back
[23:41] <WildFox> ...
[23:41] <Uraeus> you people, there is only Red Hat you should now that by now
[23:41] <Uraeus> :)
[23:41] <dobey> debian sucks to, unfortunately
[23:41] <WildFox> oh ?
[23:41] <dobey> actually, everything sucks too much
[23:42] <WildFox> LFS :)
[23:42] Action: Uraeus is a loyal RH user since the very begining
[23:42] <dobey> wtf is lfs?
[23:42] <WildFox> linux-from-scratch
[23:42] <WildFox> that rox
[23:42] <dobey> Uraeus: i feel sorry for you then
[23:42] <wtay> apt-get is a killer app...
[23:42] <dobey> or not
[23:42] <dobey> since it sucks ass too
[23:42] <dobey> wtay: SIGKILL?
[23:42] <WildFox> ?
[23:42] <Uraeus> dobey: thought you have did that already ?
[23:43] <WildFox> hey
[23:43] <WildFox> that's nosense
[23:43] <dobey> Uraeus: yeah, but jeez, rh since way back then?
[23:43] <WildFox> new question:
[23:43] <WildFox> does anyting NOT suck for you, dobey?
[23:43] <Uraeus> dobey: way back for me, not redhat started with 4.2 or something
[23:44] <dobey> WildFox: yes
[23:44] <WildFox> what?
[23:44] <Uraeus> himself
[23:44] <dobey> my car, sex, my laptop
[23:44] <dobey> my job
[23:44] <dobey> well, sometimes sex sucks, but that's literal
[23:44] <WildFox> lol
[23:44] <Uraeus> hehe
[23:44] <WildFox> ok
[23:44] Nick change: WildFox -> Wild|zZz
[23:44] <Wild|zZz> sleep you very well!
[23:44] <Uraeus> time for shuteye see ya
[23:44] Uraeus (cschalle at 212.186.233.224) left #gstreamer.
[23:45] <wtay> cya
[23:54] djcb (binnema at 29dyn1.dh.casema.net) left irc:
[23:56] chillywilly (baumannd at d144.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: [x]chat
[00:00] --- Mon Apr 2 2001
[00:19] steveb (steveb at node1ee08.a2000.nl) left irc: [x]chat
[00:45] dobey (dobey at 141.154.95.104) left irc: home
[00:46] djcb (binnema at 29dyn1.dh.casema.net) joined #gstreamer.
[00:47] <djcb> omega?
[00:48] djcb (binnema at 29dyn1.dh.casema.net) left irc:
[01:05] Wild|zZz (nikoz at 62.224.244.185) got netsplit.
[01:05] Wild|zZz (nikoz at 62.224.244.185) returned to #gstreamer.
[01:09] taaz-gone (dlehn at 66.37.66.32) got netsplit.
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[02:00] ajmitch (me at p8-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gstreamer.
[02:00] <ajmitch> hi
[02:00] <wtay> hi again
[02:01] <ajmitch> any more relevant stuff i should know about what kde ppl are doing? :)
[02:01] <wtay> nope just some more flames..
[02:02] <ajmitch> from Njaard?
[02:02] <wtay> dobey
[02:02] <ajmitch> oh?
[02:02] Nick change: taaz-gone -> taaz
[02:03] <ajmitch> hi taaz
[02:03] <wtay> ajmitch: nothing serious, just some debian, SuSE bashing...
[02:03] <taaz> hey
[02:03] <wtay> hi taaz
[02:03] <ajmitch> wtay: how dare someone bash debian!! ;)
[02:03] <taaz> what? debian bashing? let me at him/her...
[02:04] <wtay> ajmitch: :-)
[02:04] <ajmitch> Njaard hasn't come back tho?
[02:04] <wtay> <dobey> debian sucks to, unfortunately
[02:04] <wtay> [23:41:56] <WildFox> oh ?
[02:04] <wtay> [23:41:56] <dobey> actually, everything sucks too much
[02:05] <wtay> ajmitch: nope
[02:05] <ajmitch> heh, he's awake in #kde right now
[02:05] <wtay> I couldn't care less...
[02:07] <ajmitch> so has there been much gstreamer development since ppl have gone to europe and met up?
[02:08] <wtay> ajmitch: I've been doing a lot of coding lately, nothing to show yet...
[02:08] <ajmitch> ok
[02:08] <wtay> MetaVideoRaw is gone soon
[02:15] <ajmitch> is anyone else working on bonobo-gstmediaplay, or will it just be me when i get around to it? ;)
[02:15] <wtay> ajmitch: just you, ajmitch, just you... :)
[02:15] <ajmitch> oh crap...
[02:17] <ajmitch> means i'll have to figure out what changed so it compiles again ;)
[02:18] <wtay> ajmitch: I'll give you a hand tommorow
[02:20] <ajmitch> wtay: i'll need to do it when i find spare time - i have little of that ;)
[02:21] <ajmitch> wtay: ideas on how to use it in nautilus, tho?
[02:21] <wtay> ajmitch: not the slightest idea...
[02:22] <ajmitch> wtay: thought that might be the case, i'll try ask on some nautilus irc channels sometime ;)
[02:23] <wtay> ajmitch: cool
[02:25] <ajmitch> hmm, i just recompiled without changing sources, and it loads in gshell
[02:26] <ajmitch> i should check to see what lib it's loading
[02:26] <ajmitch> although that is the first time i've seen the controls in gshell ;)
[02:26] <wtay> cool!
[02:26] <ajmitch> it plays an mp3...
[02:27] <wtay> hehe
[02:28] <ajmitch> it won't let me change file now, i'll have to play with that
[02:28] <wtay> it's a start isn't it?
[02:29] <ajmitch> yes, and i didn't touch the code...
[02:30] <ajmitch> i think i should do a bit of bugfixong & feature-adding then
[02:31] <wtay> video failed horribly... thread issues
[02:31] <ajmitch> yeah, i just noticed that ;)
[02:31] <wtay> the new videosink might fix that because I now use gtk_sockets
[02:32] <wtay> they seem to be thread safe
[02:32] <ajmitch> alrighty ;)
[02:32] <ajmitch> would the component have to change, or would libgstplay change?
[02:32] chillywilly (baumannd at d144.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gstreamer.
[02:32] <ajmitch> oh no...
[02:32] <wtay> ajmitch: libgstplay :)
[02:33] <wtay> ajmitch: working on that now
[02:33] <chillywilly> oh yes....
[02:33] <chillywilly> whatcha workin' on?
[02:33] <ajmitch> wtay: i get a big black box below the controls now
[02:34] <wtay> ajmitch: ?
[02:34] <wtay> ajmitch: I actually embed the video widget too I think, so that might be it
[02:35] <ajmitch> wtay: i started to play a video, got 1/2 a sec of sound, went to open a new window and the area below the controls turned black
[02:35] <wtay> ajmitch: yup that's the sink
[02:35] <chillywilly> so the bonobo component is done?
[02:35] <wtay> ajmitch: with the new videosink this will all work
[02:35] <ajmitch> chillywilly: hell no
[02:36] <ajmitch> chillywilly: i'm just using the one that hasn't been touched since november
[02:36] <chillywilly> oh, ok
[02:36] <chillywilly> we still may be able to have some fun with that then
[02:36] <chillywilly> ;)
[02:36] <chillywilly> heh
[02:36] <chillywilly> using it?
[02:36] <chillywilly> your coding?
[02:37] <ajmitch> chillywilly: now playing 'delirious - hang onto you' using gshell
[02:37] <ajmitch> chillywilly: not at the moment, will start looking over it soon
[02:37] <chillywilly> what's gshell?
[02:37] <ajmitch> chillywilly: andrewm is calling me a weirdo, go talk to him ;)
[02:37] <chillywilly> command line?
[02:38] <ajmitch> chillywilly: gshell is a gnome testbed thing that just embeds controls
[02:38] <ajmitch> chillywilly: in libbonobo-dev, iirc
[02:38] <chillywilly> k
[02:38] <chillywilly> oh
[02:38] <chillywilly> ooooh
[02:38] <chillywilly> so that's how your embedding the bonobo component?
[02:39] <chillywilly> the old one
[02:39] <ajmitch> that's the best way to test it
[02:39] <chillywilly> uhuh
[02:39] <chillywilly> I see
[02:39] <ajmitch> im planning to redo little bits of the existing component, hopefully wtay here will like what i do ;)
[02:40] <wtay> ajmitch: don't worry about that, just make it work...
[02:40] <chillywilly> k
[02:40] <ajmitch> wtay: lol
[02:40] <ajmitch> wtay: most of the work is done by you and others in the gstreamer core, and libgstplay
[02:41] <ajmitch> i'm just adding the pretty UI ;)
[02:42] <chillywilly> ajmitch: you suck
[02:42] <wtay> ajmitch: hehe
[02:43] <ajmitch> chillywilly: why?
[02:46] <chillywilly> don't drag me into arguments and then stab me in ther back :P
[02:46] <chillywilly> not cool
[02:46] <ajmitch> argument?
[02:47] <ajmitch> oh well, stuff it, i have to go anyway. enjoy your afternoon/evening/night/early hours of morning ;)
[02:48] ajmitch (me at p8-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: http://www.freedevelopers.net
[02:48] <chillywilly> he's being very pricky lately
[03:20] Action: chillywilly has to find out what is wrong with his kiwi
[03:26] Nick change: wtay -> wtay-sleeping
[03:26] <wtay-sleeping> cya
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[03:45] chillywilly (baumannd at d144.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d144.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: No route to host
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[04:09] <sienap> hej all
[04:09] <sienap> !
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