[LGM] Pandora’s Box ? ;-)

Fri Oct 7 07:25:50 PDT 2011

Hi,

Below are the last exchanges about what LGM could/should be. We'd like to
continue this thread using the dedicated LGM mailing list. I copied from
"Pandora's Box" not to say that the previous discussion was not interesting!
:-)

Do we have everyone on board with this list already? I mean, the people that
were Cc’ed in the thread are all registered? Ale can you confirm this?

Cheers guys!

Louis

* * *

I don't want to open up Pandora's Box, but now that a host location is
confirmed, should we perhaps discuss the contents of the schedule?

One of the things I've heard several times is that the various projects (eg
GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together.  Perhaps we have put too much
emphasis on the talks and not enough on providing open blocks of hacking
time.  While I think the talks have been excellent, maybe it would be
possible to do a *lot* more of them in lightning-talk format -- especially
the "updates" and "demos"?  In 2011 we had two-hour meeting blocks; perhaps
that's just not enough for some developers to justify the trip.  If we just
had talks in the mornings (short and fast ones), and had all afternoon for
working, perhaps the developer communities would find it more useful?

Alternatively, if we were meeting in a venue that would allow us to keep a
hacking room (or two) open all evening and all night, that also might help.
Obviously making that work would depend a lot on the venue, and could be
impractical in some.  But the MeeGo conferences I have been to did that, and
I think it was very successful. [Note that that's not a comment on the
successfulness of the MeeGo project itself, which has had major problems
with its corporate parents.  But the conferences were great]

Just my thoughts....
Nate

* * *

hi

> I don't want to open up Pandora's Box, but now that a host location is
> confirmed, should we perhaps discuss the contents of the schedule?
>
> One of the things I've heard several times is that the various
> projects (eg GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together.  Perhaps we
> have put too much emphasis on the talks and not enough on providing
> open blocks of hacking time.  While I think the talks have been
> excellent, maybe it would be possible to do a *lot* more of them in
> lightning-talk format -- especially the "updates" and "demos"?  In
> 2011 we had two-hour meeting blocks; perhaps that's just not enough
> for some developers to justify the trip.  If we just had talks in the
> mornings (short and fast ones), and had all afternoon for working,
> perhaps the developer communities would find it more useful?

my experience of last year, is that it's hard to convince the people
that their talk would fit in a dozen of minutes.
everybody would like 2 hours...
(me too)

and it was also hard to get people to do a real presentation which
would be really interesting for the other devs.
the fact that the talks are recorded pushed some people to prepare a
talk that would show their project to the internet.
(i think that we should ask for the slides being submitted before the
beginning of the lgm itself)

about less talks and more time to hack: i wouldn't put the talks in the
morning...

basically, switching the times would be imo ok:
talks from 1pm to 4pm; the rest of the day would be free for hacking
(+ maybe 3 hours workshops in the morning, mainly for people
in the community and not for the devs)

and maybe a light get together at 6pm... for a drink or similar...

> Alternatively, if we were meeting in a venue that would allow us to
> keep a hacking room (or two) open all evening and all night, that
> also might help.

good idea (even if i tend to like the idea that people sleep at
night...)

i guess that the main venue will be close at night (universities
normally close at 10pm or earlier)

but we could look to a secondary venue for evening/night hacking... if
possible at the same place or in a very cool place...

let's find new ideas!

ciao
a.l.e

ps.: do your really actively avoid to use the mailing list that i set
up at create?

* * *

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Nathan Willis <nwillis at glyphography.com>
wrote:

> One of the things I've heard several times is that the various projects
(eg
> GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together.

We don't do what? Of course we use LGM for that. It's just this year
was too far for most people to attend. Everyone's excited about
Vienna.

> Perhaps we have put too much
> emphasis on the talks and not enough on providing open blocks of hacking
> time.  While I think the talks have been excellent, maybe it would be
> possible to do a *lot* more of them in lightning-talk format -- especially
> the "updates" and "demos"?

Agreed.

Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org

* * *

On 10/06/2011 04:56 PM, Nathan Willis wrote:

    On 10/06/2011 03:54 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

        On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Nathan Willis<
nwillis at glyphography.com>  wrote:

            One of the things I've heard several times is that the various
projects (eg
            GIMP) are not using LGM to meet together.

        We don't do what? Of course we use LGM for that. It's just this year
        was too far for most people to attend. Everyone's excited about
        Vienna.

    Sorry, this may have just been an unclear choice of words; substitute
    "hack" or "work" if you will.

I think that LGM is in the process of maturing as a meeting. The first
several meetings had such great excitement, and full of various novelties of
meetings between individual people and projects.

Now things have come to a time when more thought should go into deciding
what needs to be done or what can be done in this face-to-face situation
that can't or doesn't happen otherwise. And as with this year, we should
make some efforts to inject some fun into the meetings in a very intentional
way.

This having been said, this coming year we have the very new experience of a
simultaneous meeting with Linuxwochen. For some this might portend the
boring spectacle of explaining LGM to newbies, but my guess is that there
will be some energy in Linuxwochen we can tap to ensure that everyone has an
enjoyable experience.

As far as hacking or working, this would seem to be a matter that those who
might hack/work need to consider. Again, thinking ahead may be the answer.
It isn't like we have no idea who is likely to attend. What are the great
unsolved mysteries for more compatibility between projects? Let's not forget
the showmanship of engineering some big announcement to be made public at
LGM 2012 -- this is not patented or proprietary.

Greg

* * *

Hi,

On 10/06/2011 08:32 PM, ale rimoldi wrote:

    my experience of last year, is that it's hard to convince the people
    that their talk would fit in a dozen of minutes.
    everybody would like 2 hours...
    (me too)

Everyone asks for more time, and then uses it poorly. Less time is what
people need for presentations, and more preparation. Your typical keynote is
between 15 and 30 minutes at bigger conferences - and they're the best one.
Strip the filler! Get to the point! It's a sales pitch, not a pulpit with a
captive audience.

    and it was also hard to get people to do a real presentation which
    would be really interesting for the other devs.

It is hard because people don't think about other people, they think about
themselves. The trick is to guide them to think about other people.

    the fact that the talks are recorded pushed some people to prepare a
    talk that would show their project to the internet.
    (i think that we should ask for the slides being submitted before the
    beginning of the lgm itself)

Nonono! Slides should not replace your presentation. Video is great, but a
presentation is more like theatre, a sales pitch or stand-up than it is like
sending someone a memo. The presence of the presenter *should* matter.

    about less talks and more time to hack: i wouldn't put the talks in the
    morning...

I agree on less talks. The original format was talks in the morning, after
lunch, and to end the day. My idea was to provide sync points where people
made a point of getting out of bed, meeting up before & after lunch, and
before going out to dinner. That way, even if people were spread out during
the morning and afternoon, we provided an environment which encouraged
conversation between projects. Too many presentations breaks that cycle.

    basically, switching the times would be imo ok:
    talks from 1pm to 4pm; the rest of the day would be free for hacking
    (+ maybe 3 hours workshops in the morning, mainly for people
    in the community and not for the devs)

The devs are not people in the community? What community are you talking
about?

    ps.: do your really actively avoid to use the mailing list that i set
    up at create?

I guess you haven't sold it very well (example: what's the link? Who should
be signed up? Where are the archives?)

Cheers,
Dave.

-- 
Dave Neary
GNOME Foundation member
dneary at gnome.org
Jabber: nearyd at gmail.com

* * *

hi

        about less talks and more time to hack: i wouldn't put the talks in
the
        morning...

    I agree on less talks. The original format was talks in the morning,
after lunch, and to end the day. My idea was to provide sync points where
people made a point of getting out of bed, meeting up before & after lunch,
and before going out to dinner. That way, even if people were spread out
during the morning and afternoon, we provided an environment which
encouraged conversation between projects. Too many presentations breaks that
cycle.

imo, in the last (two?) LGM this didn't work too well.

- people didn't get up in the morning (despite the talks being announced)
- and imo, as a side effect of spreading the talks (and interesting visits)
through the all day was, many people people started only attending their own
project's presentations...

personally, i liked how the talks were placed in the last 2/3 LGMs and we
can go on with the same schema. but i have somehow the feeling that
everything was a little bit cramped... so there is also room for trying
another formula if we want...

        basically, switching the times would be imo ok:
        talks from 1pm to 4pm; the rest of the day would be free for hacking
        (+ maybe 3 hours workshops in the morning, mainly for people
        in the community and not for the devs)

    The devs are not people in the community? What community are you talking
about?

the other way round: not the whole community is composed by developers or
people deeply engaged in the project.

what i meant were workshops for graphics artists or free software
enthusiasts who want to get in touch with libre graphics or extend their
knowledge.

an example is last year's inkscape/openclipart workshop.

ciao
a.l.e

* * *

hi

        the fact that the talks are recorded pushed some people to prepare a
        talk that would show their project to the internet.
        (i think that we should ask for the slides being submitted before
the
        beginning of the lgm itself)

    Nonono! Slides should not replace your presentation. Video is great, but
a presentation is more like theatre, a sales pitch or stand-up than it is
like sending someone a memo. The presence of the presenter *should* matter.

it was about the people actually preparing their presentation in advance
(not the morning before the talk)
/me included! :-)

and people preparing their talk for the actual audience and not for the
people watching the recordings from home...

ciao
a.l.e
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