[LGM] finances

Fri Nov 24 03:25:31 UTC 2017

Hi

It does not need to be a 501c3 or non profit, and does not need to be in
the USA. However the entity must have a bank account already set up today,
that can accept USD payments (which most accounts in eu countries can
typically do)

On Nov 23, 2017 6:49 PM, "Louis Desjardins" <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> 2017-11-23 20:28 GMT-05:00 Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi, Louis.
>>
>> The hang-up on SPI is not internal to LGM at this point. I was indeed
>> unable to get the finance committee together, but the organization as a
>> whole did approve sending the letter, and I will send it next week. The
>> next series of hurdles will involve identifying what steps we need to take
>> in order to satisfy SPI requirements. We will have a better idea of that
>> once we receive a response to the letter.
>>
>
> Ok! Great! Thanks Frank!
>
>>
>> Hi, Dave.
>>
>> Does the beneficiary organization need to be a 501(c)3? If not, we could
>> have an organization set up next week and a bank account by mid-December.
>> If it must be a 501(c)3, I might be able to persuade a local 501(c)3 to
>> step in this one time.
>>
>
> Hi Frank (again)!
>
> The canadian org was not under 501(c)3 and Google did send the money to
> us, with a PO and an Invoice. As a non-profit it was not subject to income
> tax. If you ask a regular company to invoice Google, this will be a revenue
> to that company, subject to income tax. If you can persuade a 501(c)3 org
> to handle such an amount of money for a relatively short period of time, it
> would be preferable, I think. No income tax would be involved and the money
> could transit back to SPI without fiscal impact on both organisations, when
> all is settled.
>
> If this is feasible, Dave will have a solid ground for the money to land
> and thus will be able to ask the subsidy in confidence.
>
> All in all, I think it’s great if we can take this opportunity to solve 2
> things at once: the organisation and the budget! If we do end up with 15K
> as a start, this amount will probably be enough to cover most of the needs
> for the 2018 edition.
>
> Thanks to both of you!
>
> Louis
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Louis Desjardins <
>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-11-23 16:05 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Google is a big company, but Google Fonts is not a big team, and it
>>>> would be just me handling this, and I don't have time to administer
>>>> individual reimbursements. What I do have time for is a single sponsorship
>>>> agreement (using a Google template contract) and cutting a single check to
>>>> an LGM entity, be that an umbrella one or a direct one.
>>>>
>>>> Am I right that if Google Fonts was to offer to sponsor LGM with a
>>>> single $15,000 payment in December (ie, get the agreement signed before end
>>>> of this month, next week, then invoice within first two weeks of December)
>>>> then this wouldn't be possible because LGM has no legal entity that could
>>>> sign a sponsorship agreement and invoice the money?
>>>>
>>>> If so, that's a pity, because it may be easier for me to offer than now
>>>> then next year, due to the nature of 'end of year' liquidity.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is a fan-tas-tic opportunity we ab-so-lu-te-ly cannot let go!
>>>
>>> I strongly urge the LGM organisers to enforce the decision that was made
>>> years ago when we thoroughly discussed about the finances as to go for SPI
>>> without delay.
>>>
>>> If we feel we need a vote, then let’s organise one.
>>>
>>> More infos are posted here:
>>> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/
>>>
>>> It takes a couple months (there is a 60-day delay once the Board has
>>> accepted), so we’re not ahead of time. The Board of SPI has to meet
>>> (monthly) and analyse the project before they submit it.
>>>
>>> If this is too long and puts the Google Font subsidy at risk, then the
>>> only other viable solution I can think of, is to ask the GNOME Foundation
>>> to make the Google transaction for LGM and then transfert that money to SPI
>>> once we’re accepted officially. They will be both US 501(c)3 Non-Profit
>>> Organizations and so can send money to one another with not fiscal impact
>>> (at least, this is what I understand and it would be advisable to check
>>> this first with both SPI and GNOME). Whether GNOME would still take a % off
>>> the grant remains to be discussed. We should be able to negociate a no-fee
>>> transaction for such a particular case.
>>>
>>> If someone has a better idea, please step in quick. This is an urgent
>>> matter.
>>>
>>> Thanks Dave!
>>>
>>> Louis
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 22 November 2017 at 19:05, Louis Desjardins <
>>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> After reading tonight’s log, here my 2-cents.
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly support that we connect with SPI.
>>>>> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/services/
>>>>> and let them handle the money and the reimbursements.
>>>>>
>>>>> *The tax-deductible thing is really only noise in the discussion. Each
>>>>> country handles its fiscal law regardless of others. There is no practical
>>>>> solution to this problem. If we go the SPI way, money donated by
>>>>> individuals from within the USA will be tax-deducted, other money won’t.
>>>>> However, a regular compagny that would provide a subsidy to LGM from
>>>>> anywhere in the world will probably enter it into its expenses and thus
>>>>> will reduce by the same its bottom line... and hence will pay less income
>>>>> tax. Again, not an issue. (Also, considering the average amount we got from
>>>>> individuals (in Pledgie), this was less than $50 so tax-deductible would
>>>>> only be a fraction of small amounts. Nothing worth establishing a global
>>>>> multinational organisation to save little money. Let’s not get hysterical!)*
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest we vote on this to give some weight to the decision. If the
>>>>> majority votes for SPI, we’re in; money can go there.
>>>>>
>>>>> What’s left to us is to find sponsors. SPI won’t help us. But they can
>>>>> handle the money, in and out.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we’d prefer, we could vote on the reimbursements and ask if we want
>>>>> to pursue, or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> In any way, we need to clarify things quick.
>>>>>
>>>>> We also need to think long-term.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>
>>>>> Louis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2017-11-19 6:36 GMT-05:00 Louis Desjardins <louis.desjardins at gmail.com
>>>>> >:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-11-18 16:13 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think Google Fonts may be interested in this sponsorship, with a
>>>>>>> focus on bringing people together to do focused work on Variable Font
>>>>>>> support in all libre graphics applications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Felipe Sanches was working on Inkscape support and got stuck, so if
>>>>>>> he can attend and meet Inkscape core devs to make progress towards being
>>>>>>> ready to ship, that would be great.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What were the total budgets for lgms in the past?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roughly :
>>>>>> - Europe LGMs : 10-15K USD
>>>>>> - North America LGMs - 20-30K USD
>>>>>> - Outside “Occidental North” is much higher (from rough evaluations).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The numbers greatly vary from the needs of travellers and we have no
>>>>>> way of accurately predicting this until late in the process of organising a
>>>>>> LGM (ie, after we know who’s coming from which team, who makes a talk, who
>>>>>> animates a workshop, who’s in need of travel sponsoring).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can have money from Google (say, they reserve an envelope of
>>>>>> 15K for Sevilla), the best way to handle it would be through them directly
>>>>>> (Google money to sponsored participant directly), using their
>>>>>> administrative way, forms, money handling, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is not feasible but Google accepts to sponsor the event, then
>>>>>> we need an organisation to handle this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From experience, the reimbursement process is not easy because of the
>>>>>> many variables that are unknown at some point in the reimbursement process,
>>>>>> including bad bank infos, missing documents, impossibility to handle a
>>>>>> reimbursement based on where in the world the transaction ends (some money
>>>>>> get stuck months in intermediary banks). Probably things that a company
>>>>>> such as Google would handle best.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To those who have been participating in the past discussions on that
>>>>>> subject:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    1. I am permanently out of this process now, given a) the level
>>>>>>    of dissatisfaction and b) the level of non-enthusiasm the detailed
>>>>>>    proposals I’ve made to solve the issue in a sustainable manner have
>>>>>>    received.
>>>>>>    2. We definitely had a final decision of moving to a
>>>>>>    international non-profit organisation who already handles the money of many
>>>>>>    FLOSS projects, for a decent fee. Side note: I am *very surprised* to see
>>>>>>    that in the past 3 years, and after the heavy discussions we had about
>>>>>>    finances, nothing has moved forward (although the decision was made). Lots
>>>>>>    of talks, no action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s never to late for action. Either give up on reimbursements or
>>>>>> make it happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, if Dave can have Google be on our side again and handle the
>>>>>> reimbursements, I support this strongly. I think it’s the most simple way
>>>>>> and it will take away from us the most difficult task in the organisation
>>>>>> of LGM.
>>>>>> As a long time LGM supporter and organiser, I am still ready to help,
>>>>>> with other stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a wonderful day!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2017 10:38 AM, "Gregory Pittman" <gpittman at iglou.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2017 10:01 AM, ale rimoldi wrote:
>>>>>>>> > hi
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > so, if i understand it correctly, the current status is that we
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> > not have any "official" reimbursement of travel costs from the
>>>>>>>> global
>>>>>>>> > lgm for 2018.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > if anybody is not comfortable with this, please step up before
>>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>>> > lgm meeting and let us discuss it!
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > (for reference: it has also been suggested that we should get (and
>>>>>>>> > help...) the teams to collect their own money).
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think another way to look at this is to try to see it from the
>>>>>>>> outside. Why would or should some outside organization donate to
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> meeting? What's in it for them? We know it doesn't have to be some
>>>>>>>> monetary return for some corporation, but still, of the various
>>>>>>>> meetings
>>>>>>>> and organizations that are out there, why donate to LGM?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have to try to begin to answer this question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having said this, I have put out a feeler to Red Hat, and so far the
>>>>>>>> response has been rather feeble.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Dave
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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