[LGM] finances

Fri Nov 24 03:42:43 UTC 2017

Well that might be difficult. We'd definitely need to borrow somebody's
organization and bank account, as we certainly have none of our own.

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:25 PM, Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> It does not need to be a 501c3 or non profit, and does not need to be in
> the USA. However the entity must have a bank account already set up today,
> that can accept USD payments (which most accounts in eu countries can
> typically do)
>
>
>
> On Nov 23, 2017 6:49 PM, "Louis Desjardins" <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> 2017-11-23 20:28 GMT-05:00 Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi, Louis.
>>>
>>> The hang-up on SPI is not internal to LGM at this point. I was indeed
>>> unable to get the finance committee together, but the organization as a
>>> whole did approve sending the letter, and I will send it next week. The
>>> next series of hurdles will involve identifying what steps we need to take
>>> in order to satisfy SPI requirements. We will have a better idea of that
>>> once we receive a response to the letter.
>>>
>>
>> Ok! Great! Thanks Frank!
>>
>>>
>>> Hi, Dave.
>>>
>>> Does the beneficiary organization need to be a 501(c)3? If not, we could
>>> have an organization set up next week and a bank account by mid-December.
>>> If it must be a 501(c)3, I might be able to persuade a local 501(c)3 to
>>> step in this one time.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Frank (again)!
>>
>> The canadian org was not under 501(c)3 and Google did send the money to
>> us, with a PO and an Invoice. As a non-profit it was not subject to income
>> tax. If you ask a regular company to invoice Google, this will be a revenue
>> to that company, subject to income tax. If you can persuade a 501(c)3 org
>> to handle such an amount of money for a relatively short period of time, it
>> would be preferable, I think. No income tax would be involved and the money
>> could transit back to SPI without fiscal impact on both organisations, when
>> all is settled.
>>
>> If this is feasible, Dave will have a solid ground for the money to land
>> and thus will be able to ask the subsidy in confidence.
>>
>> All in all, I think it’s great if we can take this opportunity to solve 2
>> things at once: the organisation and the budget! If we do end up with 15K
>> as a start, this amount will probably be enough to cover most of the needs
>> for the 2018 edition.
>>
>> Thanks to both of you!
>>
>> Louis
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Louis Desjardins <
>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2017-11-23 16:05 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Google is a big company, but Google Fonts is not a big team, and it
>>>>> would be just me handling this, and I don't have time to administer
>>>>> individual reimbursements. What I do have time for is a single sponsorship
>>>>> agreement (using a Google template contract) and cutting a single check to
>>>>> an LGM entity, be that an umbrella one or a direct one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I right that if Google Fonts was to offer to sponsor LGM with a
>>>>> single $15,000 payment in December (ie, get the agreement signed before end
>>>>> of this month, next week, then invoice within first two weeks of December)
>>>>> then this wouldn't be possible because LGM has no legal entity that could
>>>>> sign a sponsorship agreement and invoice the money?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, that's a pity, because it may be easier for me to offer than
>>>>> now then next year, due to the nature of 'end of year' liquidity.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a fan-tas-tic opportunity we ab-so-lu-te-ly cannot let go!
>>>>
>>>> I strongly urge the LGM organisers to enforce the decision that was
>>>> made years ago when we thoroughly discussed about the finances as to go for
>>>> SPI without delay.
>>>>
>>>> If we feel we need a vote, then let’s organise one.
>>>>
>>>> More infos are posted here:
>>>> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/
>>>>
>>>> It takes a couple months (there is a 60-day delay once the Board has
>>>> accepted), so we’re not ahead of time. The Board of SPI has to meet
>>>> (monthly) and analyse the project before they submit it.
>>>>
>>>> If this is too long and puts the Google Font subsidy at risk, then the
>>>> only other viable solution I can think of, is to ask the GNOME Foundation
>>>> to make the Google transaction for LGM and then transfert that money to SPI
>>>> once we’re accepted officially. They will be both US 501(c)3 Non-Profit
>>>> Organizations and so can send money to one another with not fiscal impact
>>>> (at least, this is what I understand and it would be advisable to check
>>>> this first with both SPI and GNOME). Whether GNOME would still take a % off
>>>> the grant remains to be discussed. We should be able to negociate a no-fee
>>>> transaction for such a particular case.
>>>>
>>>> If someone has a better idea, please step in quick. This is an urgent
>>>> matter.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Dave!
>>>>
>>>> Louis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22 November 2017 at 19:05, Louis Desjardins <
>>>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After reading tonight’s log, here my 2-cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I strongly support that we connect with SPI.
>>>>>> https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/services/
>>>>>> and let them handle the money and the reimbursements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The tax-deductible thing is really only noise in the discussion.
>>>>>> Each country handles its fiscal law regardless of others. There is no
>>>>>> practical solution to this problem. If we go the SPI way, money donated by
>>>>>> individuals from within the USA will be tax-deducted, other money won’t.
>>>>>> However, a regular compagny that would provide a subsidy to LGM from
>>>>>> anywhere in the world will probably enter it into its expenses and thus
>>>>>> will reduce by the same its bottom line... and hence will pay less income
>>>>>> tax. Again, not an issue. (Also, considering the average amount we got from
>>>>>> individuals (in Pledgie), this was less than $50 so tax-deductible would
>>>>>> only be a fraction of small amounts. Nothing worth establishing a global
>>>>>> multinational organisation to save little money. Let’s not get hysterical!)*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suggest we vote on this to give some weight to the decision. If the
>>>>>> majority votes for SPI, we’re in; money can go there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What’s left to us is to find sponsors. SPI won’t help us. But they
>>>>>> can handle the money, in and out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we’d prefer, we could vote on the reimbursements and ask if we
>>>>>> want to pursue, or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any way, we need to clarify things quick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also need to think long-term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-11-19 6:36 GMT-05:00 Louis Desjardins <
>>>>>> louis.desjardins at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2017-11-18 16:13 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think Google Fonts may be interested in this sponsorship, with a
>>>>>>>> focus on bringing people together to do focused work on Variable Font
>>>>>>>> support in all libre graphics applications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Felipe Sanches was working on Inkscape support and got stuck, so if
>>>>>>>> he can attend and meet Inkscape core devs to make progress towards being
>>>>>>>> ready to ship, that would be great.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What were the total budgets for lgms in the past?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roughly :
>>>>>>> - Europe LGMs : 10-15K USD
>>>>>>> - North America LGMs - 20-30K USD
>>>>>>> - Outside “Occidental North” is much higher (from rough evaluations).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The numbers greatly vary from the needs of travellers and we have no
>>>>>>> way of accurately predicting this until late in the process of organising a
>>>>>>> LGM (ie, after we know who’s coming from which team, who makes a talk, who
>>>>>>> animates a workshop, who’s in need of travel sponsoring).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you can have money from Google (say, they reserve an envelope of
>>>>>>> 15K for Sevilla), the best way to handle it would be through them directly
>>>>>>> (Google money to sponsored participant directly), using their
>>>>>>> administrative way, forms, money handling, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this is not feasible but Google accepts to sponsor the event,
>>>>>>> then we need an organisation to handle this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From experience, the reimbursement process is not easy because of
>>>>>>> the many variables that are unknown at some point in the reimbursement
>>>>>>> process, including bad bank infos, missing documents, impossibility to
>>>>>>> handle a reimbursement based on where in the world the transaction ends
>>>>>>> (some money get stuck months in intermediary banks). Probably things that a
>>>>>>> company such as Google would handle best.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To those who have been participating in the past discussions on that
>>>>>>> subject:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    1. I am permanently out of this process now, given a) the level
>>>>>>>    of dissatisfaction and b) the level of non-enthusiasm the detailed
>>>>>>>    proposals I’ve made to solve the issue in a sustainable manner have
>>>>>>>    received.
>>>>>>>    2. We definitely had a final decision of moving to a
>>>>>>>    international non-profit organisation who already handles the money of many
>>>>>>>    FLOSS projects, for a decent fee. Side note: I am *very surprised* to see
>>>>>>>    that in the past 3 years, and after the heavy discussions we had about
>>>>>>>    finances, nothing has moved forward (although the decision was made). Lots
>>>>>>>    of talks, no action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s never to late for action. Either give up on reimbursements or
>>>>>>> make it happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, if Dave can have Google be on our side again and handle the
>>>>>>> reimbursements, I support this strongly. I think it’s the most simple way
>>>>>>> and it will take away from us the most difficult task in the organisation
>>>>>>> of LGM.
>>>>>>> As a long time LGM supporter and organiser, I am still ready to
>>>>>>> help, with other stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have a wonderful day!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 18, 2017 10:38 AM, "Gregory Pittman" <gpittman at iglou.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2017 10:01 AM, ale rimoldi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > hi
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > so, if i understand it correctly, the current status is that we
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> > not have any "official" reimbursement of travel costs from the
>>>>>>>>> global
>>>>>>>>> > lgm for 2018.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > if anybody is not comfortable with this, please step up before
>>>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>>>> > lgm meeting and let us discuss it!
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > (for reference: it has also been suggested that we should get
>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>> > help...) the teams to collect their own money).
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think another way to look at this is to try to see it from the
>>>>>>>>> outside. Why would or should some outside organization donate to
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> meeting? What's in it for them? We know it doesn't have to be some
>>>>>>>>> monetary return for some corporation, but still, of the various
>>>>>>>>> meetings
>>>>>>>>> and organizations that are out there, why donate to LGM?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have to try to begin to answer this question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having said this, I have put out a feeler to Red Hat, and so far
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> response has been rather feeble.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphic
>>>>>>>> s-meeting
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>>> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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