[LGM] finances

Mon Nov 27 23:52:54 UTC 2017

Fragmented answers within Dave’s email below...

2017-11-27 18:25 GMT-05:00 Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>:

>
>
> On 27 November 2017 at 18:01, Tobias Ellinghaus <houz at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> Am Montag, 27. November 2017, 16:41:01 CET schrieb Frank Trampe:
>> > 19% is a rather hefty cut. I would be happy to volunteer some time to
>> save
>> > some money.
>> >
>> > Soenke, could we get a discount from K8 if we submit a final list
>> ourselves?
>>
>> Quoting Soenke:
>> > that is what overhead charges cover. For K8, it's 15 % f
>> research-related
>> > projects (national or EU funds commonly include overhead flats between
>> 20
>> > and 25 % per cent).
>> >
>> > The tax rate depends on whether we are talking donation (tax free, but
>> also
>> > no mention of donor allowed) or sponsoring (usually 19%).
>>
>> it seems the 19% are the share for the German government and nothing
>> Soenke
>> can give discounts on. Unless you want to see LGM in the next Panama
>> Papers
>>
>
> Oh! I see, I mis-read Soenke's email! I read it was 15% _or_ 19%, but
> actually she meant its a 15% charge for holding and administering the funds
> and potentially a 19% EU VAT tax if it isn't a donation.
>
> However, since this would be funds from the USA, there wouldn't be any
> VAT; however the organization would have to provide the appropriate W8-BEN
> form to prevent the IRS levying a 35% tax on the wire transfer.
>
> 15% is better than 19% :)
>
> On 27 November 2017 at 17:55, Louis Desjardins <louis.desjardins at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> K8 will take a [15%] cut for handling everything.
>>>
>>
>> SPI asks for 4%. To the best of my knowledge, GNOME was just about the
>> same. As a comparison, 19% cut seems rather high.
>>
>>>
> That's 4% for handling the money only, not adminstering it though, right?
>

That’s for both receiving the money and sending it out to reimburse
people’s travel fees.

>
> That seems like the easiest solution and frees up Frank's volunteer time
>>> to do other stuff (like maybe help arrange the video recordings/streaming
>>> to be done using only libre software? :)
>>>
>>
>> Dave, only to be sure I understand correctly what you say, do you mean
>> that K8 could handle the money from Google to the extent of handling the
>> reimbursements for 2018 (and then, maybe, follow up with 2019)?
>>
>
> Yes, I believe that is what Soenke said. Soenke, please confirm :)
>
>
>> Do you evacuate totally SPI in that proposal?
>>
>
> Yes for this round of Google Fonts funding; no for future funds, and also
> no for the general LGM pledgie/etc funds.
>
> Would K8 be able to act as a SFH (secure funds holder)?
>>
>
> No, I believe that was not what Soenke offered. Again, please confirm :)
>
>
>> I would still investigate with SPI if they would at least consider LGM to
>> be a project member.
>>
>
> I agree, I would like to see that happen
>
>
>> Their statement is clear on their website and they can handle what we
>> can’t handle anymore, at a reasonable cost.
>>
>
> However, per http://spi-inc.org/projects/services they are merely a
> "Secure Funds Holder," not an active administrator, which is what [I
> believe] K8 provides.
>

“SPI will accept donations and hold funds on behalf of associated projects.
Refunds for legitimate project expenses will be made from funds earmarked
for an associated project with the consent of the project liaison.”

This is basically the mechanics we had with GNOME and looks like the same
is going to happen with SPI. Someone at LGM provides a list of people along
with their receipts, sends them out and staff from the umbrella org manages
the reimbursements. LGM is the “order giver” here (cannot be otherwise, in
fact) and the umbrella org acts as the accounting dept.

>
>
>> Also, if the PO from Google can be submitted before 2017 ends,
>>
>
> Actually I need this sorted within 14 days from now, or its next year :)
>

Got you. Time is what matters here.

>
>
>> I see no accounting reasons that would prevent them to put the expanse in
>> 2017 (provided their fiscal year ends on Dec. 31, which is not the case of
>> all companies but only the case of all individuals).
>>
>
> (Except those individuals domiciled in the UK, who have an April 5th tax
> year lol)
>

Thanks for the info!

>
>
>> If needed, I can make the first steps with SPI and keep you guys informed
>> of how it goes. However I will not be the responsible person further than
>> establishing the contact and maybe a few steps further. At some point,
>> somebody else will have to step in. But this would at least require a
>> formal decision (or the apparence of a formal decision) by the LGM
>> community.
>>
>
> I think (a) that decision was already made and (b) Frank has already
> stepped in :)
>

I only mentioned this because Frank seemed to have a bit too much on his
shoulders. But of course, if there is one in the kitchen, no need to crowd
the room!

>
>
>> Do we, or do we not, want to become member of SPI and have them handle
>> our incoming money as well as our reimbursements (or other LGM expanses
>> that fit into the SPI rules)?
>>
>
> I believe we do want LGM to become a member project of SPI, and have them
> handle our incoming money generally, but (a) that has more set up time than
> I have and (b) SPI doesn't actually administer the reimbursements, they
> just have a single "project liason" who presents them with the bank details
> and amounts to make the transfers to.
>

Here’s how it works at SPI:

“*Paying Project Expenses*

The liaison can request payment of project expenses at any time by sending
a request to the treasurer.  If the expense is legal, it will be paid as
soon as the Treasurer can reasonably manage it.  Please note that paying
expenses usually means mailing checks, so payment generally takes two weeks
or more.

Requests for payment should be accompanied by paperwork detailing the
expense. If the paperwork is not electronic, it can be faxed or posted.
Generally, it is expected that individuals will pay the expenses up front
and be reimbursed by SPI, but advance payment can be arranged with
sufficient advance warning to the treasurer.  The Treasurer also has a
credit card for online purchases which for some reason need to be made
directly by SPI.

There are tax law restrictions on what SPI can legally pay for as a 501(c)3
Non-Profit.  Common expenses like travel, equipment, flyers, booths,
conference expenses and legal help are generally fine, but some items like
software development contracting need to be handled carefully.  If the
liaison is in doubt they should contact the Treasurer.”
Source: https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/associated-project-howto/

Plus, we can consider Dave Neary’s suggestion (that’s new info to me):
https://sfconservancy.org/projects/apply/
They seem to be more “software only” oriented but LGM is the gathering of
so many projects... Whether we fit in there is surely debatable! :)

>
>
> On 27 November 2017 at 17:42, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And what if I could get a 501(c)3 to handle just this event for us, with
>> an agreement in place by December 11th? I think that I could cut a deal for
>> 5% or less if I prepare the disbursement list.
>>
>
> Sure, that sounds more efficient.
>

Sounds good to me too.

Louis

>
>
> On 27 November 2017 at 18:04, Joao S. O. Bueno <gwidion at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WHat about the Prado Medialab, which hosted LGM Madrid?
>
>
> I don't think its worth shaking things up further right now. I have Plan
> B, K8, and Plan C, Frank's offer. Let's wait a few more days to see how
> these pan out and then think about Plans D and E :)
>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libre-graphics-meeting/attachments/20171127/df305fb7/attachment.html>