[LGM] Transfer Methods

Wed Nov 29 19:28:25 UTC 2017

Ok. Can apply f pp's "charity pricing" scheme / status. I think their fees
f currency exchanges (EUR > USD etc) still apply though.

Soenke

Am 29.11.2017 7:56 nachm. schrieb "Frank Trampe" <frank.trampe at gmail.com>:

> I just talked to a PayPal representative. Friends and family is the right
> category for what we're doing (basically anything except payroll and
> purchases requiring buyer protection). The fees are usually 0.5%, higher in
> some places like Germany and Japan. Our transaction volume would qualify
> for upfront access to a bulk payment management feature that would allow us
> to import a spreadsheet of contacts and amounts (for confirmation after
> upload, of course). And, if we get non-profit status, we would get a
> further reduction in fees. Even if we pay the full 0.5%, it's totally worth
> it to me if it allows us to centralize payments, to abstract
> transcontinental transfers, to bypass collecting bank account details, and
> to cut administration time via a professional interface.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Friends and family seemed like the category closest to what we're doing
>> (specifically, a transaction for which buyer protection does not apply).
>> I'll call to see whether we're allowed to use it for something like this.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmottard at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I know that it seems premature, but knowing in advance what the
>>> transfer
>>> > options are informs our planning. Assuming that the taxes for a
>>> European
>>> > organization aren't any worse than for an American organization, there
>>> will
>>> > be a question as to whether it's more efficient to have one on each
>>> > continent or not, and the administrative complexity of intercontinental
>>> > money transfers will weigh on that.
>>> >
>>> > PayPal charges fees for selling and for using credit card, but I think
>>> that
>>> > the fee for a non-sale transfer (assuming linked bank accounts on both
>>> ends)
>>> > is in the range that I described. I'll double-check later today.
>>>
>>> Actually I don't think Paypal has the concept of "reimbursement of
>>> travel" for its transfers.
>>>
>>> Paypal has mostly the concept of selling and buying with rates between
>>> 2.5 to 5% depending on your country and the country you send to.
>>>
>>> It also has the concept of sending money to "friends and family". And
>>> these have very low rate (they are even free when you send for
>>> instance from a EU country to another). Maybe that's what you were
>>> thinking about when you wrote about fees under 1%. But I would highly
>>> discourage trying to trick the system because we definitely can't
>>> consider than reimbursing people is the same as "sending money to a
>>> friend". My politics on these stuff is to do all by the rule.
>>> See: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees
>>>
>>> Alternatively (this is not on the main page), there is the concept of
>>> donation to non-profit which still has 2.2% of fee (so basically this
>>> is obviously the lower rate you can get since that's meant to be a
>>> discounted fee): https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/donations
>>>
>>> Basically the kind of transfer you are planning are not listed as
>>> possible actions by Paypal.
>>> If you want to carry on reimbursement through Paypal (especially if
>>> you have a lot to perform), I would highly advise to contact them
>>> directly and ask them if and how you can carry on such task. You don't
>>> want to see your Paypal account blocked with all the funds in it.
>>>
>>> Jehan
>>>
>>> > What platform would you use for one of these cryptocurrency transfers?
>>> And
>>> > what's the user experience on each end?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno <gwidion at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On 29 November 2017 at 15:33, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> > Unless we run multiple organizations (one in North America, one in
>>> South
>>> >> > America, and one in Europe, perhaps), it will be necessary to
>>> disburse
>>> >> > money
>>> >> > across the Atlantic. The European and American banking systems are
>>> >> > rather
>>> >> > different. Europe uses IBAN transfers and shuns checks; the United
>>> >> > States
>>> >> > uses checks and lacks IBAN support. SWIFT transfers would work, but
>>> they
>>> >> > are
>>> >> > expensive, so we probably need to look at outside services that can
>>> >> > route
>>> >> > between banks.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > What are people's thoughts on these?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > PayPal Bank-to-Bank (0.5% to 2%)
>>> >>
>>> >> Paypall actually take a 6% gross share from whatever is paid through
>>> them.
>>> >> They can be "simple" but they are not cheap
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Transferwise (1%)
>>> >>
>>> >> Transferwise is good!
>>> >> It has some restrictions, I don't know if in all countries, but,
>>> >> from Germany a Company could not use Tranferwise to send
>>> >> money to my Company in Brazil.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Western Union Bank-to-Bank ($10)
>>> >> This seems to work, but as the only time I actually used it, it was so
>>> >> much bureaucratic burden on my end, I would save this as last option.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cryptocurrencies:
>>> >> Dave mentioned en passant that "bitcoin transfers are expensive".
>>> >> They are not. And even if they are, one can use other of a number of
>>> >> cryptocurrencies, like Ethereum.
>>> >>
>>> >> I've been using that professionally: it is a fraction of cost, and 0
>>> >> time money transfer -
>>> >> it is just that, in some cases, the recipient will have to know how to
>>> >> cash it.
>>> >> Not even in all cases. In Brazil, for example, there is a service that
>>> >> can take any amount
>>> >> in several of these cryptocurrencies and pay immediately any bank
>>> account.
>>> >> The major drawback of using crypto, IMHO, is for the sending entity
>>> >> justify purchasing the
>>> >> cryptocurrency as part of the refund (or other payment) process . That
>>> >> initial purchase is everything
>>> >> that would show up in any tradicional accounting methods.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd say that among these 5 options, this is a settled matter until we
>>> >> have to actually make
>>> >> any of thes e transfers.
>>> >>
>>> >>   js
>>> >>  -><-
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
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>>
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