[LGM] Transfer Methods

Wed Nov 29 18:56:15 UTC 2017

I just talked to a PayPal representative. Friends and family is the right
category for what we're doing (basically anything except payroll and
purchases requiring buyer protection). The fees are usually 0.5%, higher in
some places like Germany and Japan. Our transaction volume would qualify
for upfront access to a bulk payment management feature that would allow us
to import a spreadsheet of contacts and amounts (for confirmation after
upload, of course). And, if we get non-profit status, we would get a
further reduction in fees. Even if we pay the full 0.5%, it's totally worth
it to me if it allows us to centralize payments, to abstract
transcontinental transfers, to bypass collecting bank account details, and
to cut administration time via a professional interface.

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Friends and family seemed like the category closest to what we're doing
> (specifically, a transaction for which buyer protection does not apply).
> I'll call to see whether we're allowed to use it for something like this.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmottard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I know that it seems premature, but knowing in advance what the transfer
>> > options are informs our planning. Assuming that the taxes for a European
>> > organization aren't any worse than for an American organization, there
>> will
>> > be a question as to whether it's more efficient to have one on each
>> > continent or not, and the administrative complexity of intercontinental
>> > money transfers will weigh on that.
>> >
>> > PayPal charges fees for selling and for using credit card, but I think
>> that
>> > the fee for a non-sale transfer (assuming linked bank accounts on both
>> ends)
>> > is in the range that I described. I'll double-check later today.
>>
>> Actually I don't think Paypal has the concept of "reimbursement of
>> travel" for its transfers.
>>
>> Paypal has mostly the concept of selling and buying with rates between
>> 2.5 to 5% depending on your country and the country you send to.
>>
>> It also has the concept of sending money to "friends and family". And
>> these have very low rate (they are even free when you send for
>> instance from a EU country to another). Maybe that's what you were
>> thinking about when you wrote about fees under 1%. But I would highly
>> discourage trying to trick the system because we definitely can't
>> consider than reimbursing people is the same as "sending money to a
>> friend". My politics on these stuff is to do all by the rule.
>> See: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees
>>
>> Alternatively (this is not on the main page), there is the concept of
>> donation to non-profit which still has 2.2% of fee (so basically this
>> is obviously the lower rate you can get since that's meant to be a
>> discounted fee): https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/donations
>>
>> Basically the kind of transfer you are planning are not listed as
>> possible actions by Paypal.
>> If you want to carry on reimbursement through Paypal (especially if
>> you have a lot to perform), I would highly advise to contact them
>> directly and ask them if and how you can carry on such task. You don't
>> want to see your Paypal account blocked with all the funds in it.
>>
>> Jehan
>>
>> > What platform would you use for one of these cryptocurrency transfers?
>> And
>> > what's the user experience on each end?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Joao S. O. Bueno <gwidion at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 29 November 2017 at 15:33, Frank Trampe <frank.trampe at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > Unless we run multiple organizations (one in North America, one in
>> South
>> >> > America, and one in Europe, perhaps), it will be necessary to
>> disburse
>> >> > money
>> >> > across the Atlantic. The European and American banking systems are
>> >> > rather
>> >> > different. Europe uses IBAN transfers and shuns checks; the United
>> >> > States
>> >> > uses checks and lacks IBAN support. SWIFT transfers would work, but
>> they
>> >> > are
>> >> > expensive, so we probably need to look at outside services that can
>> >> > route
>> >> > between banks.
>> >> >
>> >> > What are people's thoughts on these?
>> >> >
>> >> > PayPal Bank-to-Bank (0.5% to 2%)
>> >>
>> >> Paypall actually take a 6% gross share from whatever is paid through
>> them.
>> >> They can be "simple" but they are not cheap
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Transferwise (1%)
>> >>
>> >> Transferwise is good!
>> >> It has some restrictions, I don't know if in all countries, but,
>> >> from Germany a Company could not use Tranferwise to send
>> >> money to my Company in Brazil.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Western Union Bank-to-Bank ($10)
>> >> This seems to work, but as the only time I actually used it, it was so
>> >> much bureaucratic burden on my end, I would save this as last option.
>> >>
>> >> Cryptocurrencies:
>> >> Dave mentioned en passant that "bitcoin transfers are expensive".
>> >> They are not. And even if they are, one can use other of a number of
>> >> cryptocurrencies, like Ethereum.
>> >>
>> >> I've been using that professionally: it is a fraction of cost, and 0
>> >> time money transfer -
>> >> it is just that, in some cases, the recipient will have to know how to
>> >> cash it.
>> >> Not even in all cases. In Brazil, for example, there is a service that
>> >> can take any amount
>> >> in several of these cryptocurrencies and pay immediately any bank
>> account.
>> >> The major drawback of using crypto, IMHO, is for the sending entity
>> >> justify purchasing the
>> >> cryptocurrency as part of the refund (or other payment) process . That
>> >> initial purchase is everything
>> >> that would show up in any tradicional accounting methods.
>> >>
>> >> I'd say that among these 5 options, this is a settled matter until we
>> >> have to actually make
>> >> any of thes e transfers.
>> >>
>> >>   js
>> >>  -><-
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
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