LGM 25 Nuremberg: HELP REQUIRED Online Resources

[Lasse Fister]

Hi all,

and many thanks for getting the conversation going!

My primary issue would be to get the website situation solved. 

I would suggest to serve the website via GitHub pages. There's no
dynamic server side scripting on GH-pages, but with "workflows" static
site generation can be controlled pretty well (e.g. with Jekyll or
Eleventy it's great to use). It's also possible to point a DNS entry to
that service and GitHub doesn't charge anything.
We could also use another host (KDE) and still build the website using
the GitHub workflows mechanism then upload to the server e.g. via sftp.

My approach would be something like this:

 * The archive /20xx websites would be included in the static site at
libregraphicsmeeting.org, basically as it is right now.
 * Each new year would directly publish to its final destination /20xx.
Only the main /index.html would be outside of that structure and change
accordingly. So no big move is required to create the archive of each
year.
 * For dynamic needs (i.e. registration form etc. where direct action
for input is expected) I would suggest a new sub domain, e.g.
dynamic.libregraphicsmeeting.org that would handle those. The
integration into the static web-site could be very transparent.
However, to be able to e.g. send emails for confirmation etc. requires
also a mail-server, so there are non-trivial challenges, depending on
what we want to be able to do. The dynamic contents could also be
served from a totally different domain.

I think the separation of static vs dynamic content is nice as the
dynamic requirement is rather short lived, around half a year before
the conference. In my case, I would now be happy to set up a dynamic
server anywhere and keep it active just until this years edition is
over. We can still share the server code between each edition, but
shutting it down again also should have a good effect on code hygiene
and the burden of maintenance.

As far as emails are concerned, I'd be happy using emails from my
companies domain for this year, as the company is in the role of
hosting the event and I can control its mailserver/DNS without hassle.
We could also set up a mail-server for dynamic.libregraphicsmeeting.org

On the weekend, I wrote a script that can take the old archived pages
and transform them in so far as they can be served very simply be a
basic http-server.
It rewrites file-names if they are complicated to serve from static
server (e.g. the ?query part which `wget` would save to disk when
scraping a page) and it removes e.g. the
`http://libregraphicsmeeting/` from hrefs/srcs etc. so that another
domain can serve the pages. I don't think it's perfect but I have a
version on my http://localhost that is better than the online version
right now (which is down). I'm pushing the whole thing as it is to
github now for sharing ...
here: https://github.com/strong-type-systems/libregraphicsmeeting

About the other topics in this thread:

I think the matrix chat might be a nice idea. I try to be in the IRC
chat when I'm at my computer, but I agree with Ale that it is
complicated.
Mailinglist is OK for me.









On Mon, 2024-12-09 at 10:19 -0300, farid abdelnour wrote:
> Hello all, long time! Hopefully I'll be able to join you next year. 
> 
> The KDE community can provide support by hosting the LGM website if
> you like. But we'd have to sort some technical things out first like:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 3:19 PM ale rimoldi <ale at graphicslab.org>
> wrote:
> > This having been said, i think that there are four important topics
> > about the online resources and all of them need some discussion:
> > 
> > - DNS
> > 
> 
>  
> Would it be acceptable to have this pointed at the KDE DNS provider?
> (CloudNS.net)
> 
> > - website
> > 
> 
> 
> - For the current year, what sort of website would we be taking on
> the hosting of?- For the historical archives, is this anything other
> than a static site?
> - Hosting wise, is there anything else needed aside from the
> website(s)?
> 
> > - mailing list (archived messaging)
> > 
> 
> 
> We also have some mail servers, would you also need to use those? 
>  
> > - messaging platform (real time messaging)
> > 
> 
> 
> If it also helps, KDE has an irc <-> matrix bridge that the sysadmins
> can help setup from your irc channel to a matrix room. 
> 
> Please let me know what you think and I can get you in touch with the
> KDE sysadmins so you can organize things. 
> 
> Cheers :)
> 
>  
> > I will start here with my thoughts but, if other people agree that
> > a
> > discussion is worth to be conducted, it's probably better if the
> > replies go to one thread per topic (or some topics can go into a
> > common
> > thread).
> > 
> > 
> > TLDR:
> > 
> > and before going into the details, here my proposition for the next
> > (urgent) steps:
> > 
> > - AFGRAL gets in touch with louis and takes control of the LGM.org
> >   domain
> > - we find a new place where to host our archive with the static
> > files
> >   (if nothing better is proposed, i can temporary host them on "my"
> >   shared web space; i guess that the AFGRAL can do the same; i can
> >   participate in rebuilding the sites from the git repositories)
> > 
> > and now, a lot of details!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > # DNS
> > 
> > Luis Desjardins is the "owner" of the DNS entries.
> > 
> > He already asked for the ownership to be transferred.
> > 
> > Since the LGM itself has no way to own them by itself, i'm very
> > comfortable with the idea of having them in the hands of the AFGRAL
> > (or any other entity around the AFGRAL if cedric's "we" did not
> > refer
> > to the account he has used for sending his email)
> > 
> > If nobody disagree with this, I think that there is not much
> > discussion
> > needed and the AFGRAL is welcome to do get in touch with louis and
> > get
> > the name transferred.
> > (probably, we only need libregraphiscmeeting.org , if louis still
> > has
> > other similar domains.)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > # Hosting the "main" website with the landing page and the archive
> > 
> > We need to move.
> > urgently.
> > 
> > personally, i haven't noticed that tuxfamily has been down for such
> > a
> > long time.
> > we were very lucky that it was online during the latest LGM.
> > 
> > we have a bunch of static web sites, each in its own directory,
> > that are
> > very rarely (or never) updated.
> > 
> > my suggestion is to go for one of two solutions:
> > 
> > - we are not picky at all, anybody can host them and we make sure
> > that
> >   it's easy for us to migrate to a new host at any time, or
> > - we try to find a stable host that can host us (for free). like
> >   tuxfamily used to be.
> > 
> > if we can make sure that at the end of each LGM a static site is
> > checked into our github repository, we can be somehow more relaxed
> > about this issue:
> > we have very low requirements!
> > 
> > since tuxfamily is currently down, i would suggest that we need a
> > solution that can be online before the end of the christmas
> > holidays.
> > (or at least before the organization for the next LGM 2025 wants to
> > go
> > public with their information!)
> > 
> > in the wors case, i can probably host it myself on my shared
> > server, if
> > no better solution is proposed (in such a short time).
> > 
> > during the christmas holidays, i can reserve some time for
> > recreating
> > the websites.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > # the yearly LGM site
> > 
> > for the last few years, we had a rather good experience with a
> > static
> > site that could be "automatically" updated by pushing to the github
> > repository.
> > 
> > if the organizers want / need a dynamic site (wordpress, django,
> > ...), hosting them on a common server becomes a bit harder.
> > with tux family we had the constraint that it only supported PHP
> > and
> > we mostly went for wordpress.
> > that's all we could do.
> > often, it was enough.
> > 
> > i've already seen that somebody suggested creating subdomains that
> > can
> > be hosted by the organizers (and their partners).
> > i'm fine with that, but it makes a bit harder to later host the
> > static
> > copy.
> > (probably, not a big issue, though. but it's worth to check about
> > it
> > before deciding to use sub domains! it's an additional requirements
> > for
> > the host of the static sites)
> > 
> > then we would have all lgm up to 2024 in lgm.org/20xx and the
> > following
> > ones in 20xx.lgm.org.
> > maybe there is also an easy way to create a redirect. it needs to
> > be
> > tested. and documented.
> > 
> > as i said at the beginning of this email, for me the only hard
> > condition
> > is:
> > 
> > at the end of the lgm a static version of the site (with all the
> > public
> > content!) is checked into the git repository.
> > 
> > (of course, you can disagree with me also about that! what i want
> > to
> > say, is that all the rest is open for discussions and we can
> > probably be
> > rather flexible!)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > # archived messages: the mailing list
> > 
> > currently, the "official" communication canal of the LGM is this
> > mailing list.
> > 
> > i've not seen many critical voices about this, but those who are
> > not
> > comfortable with it do not really have a place to complain.
> > (i guess that most people who have not got into mailing list before
> > the
> > mid of the years 2010 are not used to register to mailing lists!
> > (forums, facebook, statckoverflow, slack, ... have won the race)
> > 
> > the advantage of this mailing lists:
> > 
> > - it's very easy for us to use. (and everybody can use it)
> > - freedesktop seems to manage it in a very stable way.
> > 
> > the minus points:
> > 
> > - many people are not used to mails and mailing lists anymore
> > - no visual elements
> > - (personally, i don't get a notification if there are mails i
> > should
> >   read...)
> > 
> > is there any need for discussions here?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > # real time messaging
> > 
> > officially, we are using the #lgm channel on libera chat.
> > 
> > the advantages:
> > 
> > - it works.
> > - it has very low (no) maintenance costs for us.
> > 
> > do i need to talk about the issues?
> > 
> > - no persistence of the messages (it's not possible to get home in
> > the
> >   evening and check what has happened during the day (or during the
> >   week)).
> > - almost none of us is permanently / often in the channel anymore.
> > - many people have never heard of irc
> > - most LGM projects do not (actively) use irc (anymore).
> > - no fancy / visual content
> > 
> > personally, i'm all for finding a new platform.
> > if possible one that is completely based on free software.
> > 
> > i've proposed to switch to element chat (matrix) in the past, but
> > the
> > the response was not very positive.
> > 
> > personally, i'm not 100% convinced by element myself, but i've been
> > using it in for another project for years and it works "well
> > enough".
> > 
> > the biggest issue is, for me, that many people still don't use it /
> > don't know about it.
> > the onboarding is rather painless, but:
> > - for many people, it's one more platform
> > - it's not the same as other platforms they are using.
> > 
> > but i don't see any better solution that is completely (at least
> > theoretically) open source and is as easy to use (for the end
> > users!).
> > and at least a bit popular (among our pairs).
> > 
> > if i recall correctly, at the time i proposed it, the biggest
> > concerns
> > were about hosting (which is indeed hard, but i don't see how it
> > can be
> > an issue for the lgm: we don't even manage to easily host a static
> > website) and about encryption (again, not an issue for me, but i
> > respect that other people have fundamentally different opinions on
> > this!).
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > that's was a long mail.
> > 
> > hopefully, i was not too boring, and i really hope that we can find
> > good solutions to the issues we are facing!
> > and i can invest some time in finding those solutions...
> > 
> > 
> > have a wonderful start to the week
> > a.l.e
> 
> 
> -- 
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