LGM 25 Nuremberg: HELP REQUIRED Online Resources

[Lasse Fister]

Hi Farid,

moving the DNS to KDE is a very good suggestion, especially with the
setup in a git repository, I see a clear path how we can manage it as a
community in the future.

With the other services, I think there's less urgency to find a
solution.

Best, Lasse


On Tue, 2024-12-10 at 14:50 -0300, farid abdelnour wrote:
> Hi a.l.e.
> 
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2024 at 3:55 PM ale rimoldi <ale at graphicslab.org>
> wrote:
> 
> >   if he does not feel comfortable with a static site, and if we
> > point
> >   the whole domain to the KDE DNS provider, would it possible the
> > KDE
> >   sysadmins to have yearly subdomains to point elsewhere?
> >   then, if the local organizers want to have a specific technology
> > and
> >   can host it, we can easily make them happy!
> > 
> 
> 
> For DNS stuff, we have a significant capability in this area, have a
> look at:invent.kde.org/sysadmin/dns but yes, we can certainly point
> to outside places if needed. 
> 
> In terms of tech stack, you may want to consider static site
> generators such as Hugo - which we can also provide as an end to end
> pipeline.
> 
> >   but if we decide to leave back the mailing list, a discourse
> > forum
> >   might be worth to be considered (i see that kde
> >   has https://discuss.kde.org/),
> > 
> 
> 
> Yes, discourse is very nice, we switched to it a while back. Pixls is
> also running an instance https://discuss.pixls.us/
>  
> > let's what are the thoughts of the other people on this list!
> > 
> 
>  
> If you decide to use KDE's infrastructure please contact our
> wonderful sysadmins to organize the transition and whatever else
> might be needed at: sysadmin at kde.org 
> 
> > have a wonderful evening
> > a.l.e
> > 
> 
> 
> Cheers :) 
>  
> > 
> > > Hello all, long time! Hopefully I'll be able to join you next
> > year.
> > > 
> > > The KDE community can provide support by hosting the LGM website
> > if
> > > you like. But we'd have to sort some technical things out first
> > like:
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Dec 8, 2024 at 3:19 PM ale rimoldi <ale at graphicslab.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > This having been said, i think that there are four important
> > topics
> > > > about the online resources and all of them need some
> > discussion:
> > > >
> > > > - DNS
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > Would it be acceptable to have this pointed at the KDE DNS
> > provider?
> > > (CloudNS.net)
> > > 
> > > - website
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > - - For the current year, what sort of website would we be taking
> > on
> > > the hosting of?
> > > - - For the historical archives, is this anything other than a
> > static
> > > site?
> > > - - Hosting wise, is there anything else needed aside from the
> > > website(s)?
> > > 
> > > - mailing list (archived messaging)
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > We also have some mail servers, would you also need to use those?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > - messaging platform (real time messaging)
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > If it also helps, KDE has an irc <-> matrix bridge that the
> > sysadmins
> > > can help setup from your irc channel to a matrix room.
> > > 
> > > Please let me know what you think and I can get you in touch with
> > the
> > > KDE sysadmins so you can organize things.
> > > 
> > > Cheers :)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > I will start here with my thoughts but, if other people agree
> > that a
> > > > discussion is worth to be conducted, it's probably better if
> > the
> > > > replies go to one thread per topic (or some topics can go into
> > a
> > > > common thread).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > TLDR:
> > > >
> > > > and before going into the details, here my proposition for the
> > next
> > > > (urgent) steps:
> > > >
> > > > - AFGRAL gets in touch with louis and takes control of the
> > LGM.org
> > > >   domain
> > > > - we find a new place where to host our archive with the static
> > > > files (if nothing better is proposed, i can temporary host them
> > on
> > > > "my" shared web space; i guess that the AFGRAL can do the same;
> > i
> > > > can participate in rebuilding the sites from the git
> > repositories)
> > > >
> > > > and now, a lot of details!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > # DNS
> > > >
> > > > Luis Desjardins is the "owner" of the DNS entries.
> > > >
> > > > He already asked for the ownership to be transferred.
> > > >
> > > > Since the LGM itself has no way to own them by itself, i'm very
> > > > comfortable with the idea of having them in the hands of the
> > AFGRAL
> > > > (or any other entity around the AFGRAL if cedric's "we" did not
> > > > refer to the account he has used for sending his email)
> > > >
> > > > If nobody disagree with this, I think that there is not much
> > > > discussion needed and the AFGRAL is welcome to do get in touch
> > with
> > > > louis and get the name transferred.
> > > > (probably, we only need libregraphiscmeeting.org , if louis
> > still
> > > > has other similar domains.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > # Hosting the "main" website with the landing page and the
> > archive
> > > >
> > > > We need to move.
> > > > urgently.
> > > >
> > > > personally, i haven't noticed that tuxfamily has been down for
> > such
> > > > a long time.
> > > > we were very lucky that it was online during the latest LGM.
> > > >
> > > > we have a bunch of static web sites, each in its own directory,
> > > > that are very rarely (or never) updated.
> > > >
> > > > my suggestion is to go for one of two solutions:
> > > >
> > > > - we are not picky at all, anybody can host them and we make
> > sure
> > > > that it's easy for us to migrate to a new host at any time, or
> > > > - we try to find a stable host that can host us (for free).
> > like
> > > >   tuxfamily used to be.
> > > >
> > > > if we can make sure that at the end of each LGM a static site
> > is
> > > > checked into our github repository, we can be somehow more
> > relaxed
> > > > about this issue:
> > > > we have very low requirements!
> > > >
> > > > since tuxfamily is currently down, i would suggest that we need
> > a
> > > > solution that can be online before the end of the christmas
> > > > holidays. (or at least before the organization for the next LGM
> > > > 2025 wants to go public with their information!)
> > > >
> > > > in the wors case, i can probably host it myself on my shared
> > > > server, if no better solution is proposed (in such a short
> > time).
> > > >
> > > > during the christmas holidays, i can reserve some time for
> > > > recreating the websites.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > # the yearly LGM site
> > > >
> > > > for the last few years, we had a rather good experience with a
> > > > static site that could be "automatically" updated by pushing to
> > the
> > > > github repository.
> > > >
> > > > if the organizers want / need a dynamic site (wordpress,
> > django,
> > > > ...), hosting them on a common server becomes a bit harder.
> > > > with tux family we had the constraint that it only supported
> > PHP and
> > > > we mostly went for wordpress.
> > > > that's all we could do.
> > > > often, it was enough.
> > > >
> > > > i've already seen that somebody suggested creating subdomains
> > that
> > > > can be hosted by the organizers (and their partners).
> > > > i'm fine with that, but it makes a bit harder to later host the
> > > > static copy.
> > > > (probably, not a big issue, though. but it's worth to check
> > about it
> > > > before deciding to use sub domains! it's an additional
> > requirements
> > > > for the host of the static sites)
> > > >
> > > > then we would have all lgm up to 2024 in lgm.org/20xx and the
> > > > following ones in 20xx.lgm.org.
> > > > maybe there is also an easy way to create a redirect. it needs
> > to be
> > > > tested. and documented.
> > > >
> > > > as i said at the beginning of this email, for me the only hard
> > > > condition is:
> > > >
> > > > at the end of the lgm a static version of the site (with all
> > the
> > > > public content!) is checked into the git repository.
> > > >
> > > > (of course, you can disagree with me also about that! what i
> > want to
> > > > say, is that all the rest is open for discussions and we can
> > > > probably be rather flexible!)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > # archived messages: the mailing list
> > > >
> > > > currently, the "official" communication canal of the LGM is
> > this
> > > > mailing list.
> > > >
> > > > i've not seen many critical voices about this, but those who
> > are not
> > > > comfortable with it do not really have a place to complain.
> > > > (i guess that most people who have not got into mailing list
> > before
> > > > the mid of the years 2010 are not used to register to mailing
> > lists!
> > > > (forums, facebook, statckoverflow, slack, ... have won the
> > race)
> > > >
> > > > the advantage of this mailing lists:
> > > >
> > > > - it's very easy for us to use. (and everybody can use it)
> > > > - freedesktop seems to manage it in a very stable way.
> > > >
> > > > the minus points:
> > > >
> > > > - many people are not used to mails and mailing lists anymore
> > > > - no visual elements
> > > > - (personally, i don't get a notification if there are mails i
> > > > should read...)
> > > >
> > > > is there any need for discussions here?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > # real time messaging
> > > >
> > > > officially, we are using the #lgm channel on libera chat.
> > > >
> > > > the advantages:
> > > >
> > > > - it works.
> > > > - it has very low (no) maintenance costs for us.
> > > >
> > > > do i need to talk about the issues?
> > > >
> > > > - no persistence of the messages (it's not possible to get home
> > in
> > > > the evening and check what has happened during the day (or
> > during
> > > > the week)).
> > > > - almost none of us is permanently / often in the channel
> > anymore.
> > > > - many people have never heard of irc
> > > > - most LGM projects do not (actively) use irc (anymore).
> > > > - no fancy / visual content
> > > >
> > > > personally, i'm all for finding a new platform.
> > > > if possible one that is completely based on free software.
> > > >
> > > > i've proposed to switch to element chat (matrix) in the past,
> > but
> > > > the the response was not very positive.
> > > >
> > > > personally, i'm not 100% convinced by element myself, but i've
> > been
> > > > using it in for another project for years and it works "well
> > > > enough".
> > > >
> > > > the biggest issue is, for me, that many people still don't use
> > it /
> > > > don't know about it.
> > > > the onboarding is rather painless, but:
> > > > - for many people, it's one more platform
> > > > - it's not the same as other platforms they are using.
> > > >
> > > > but i don't see any better solution that is completely (at
> > least
> > > > theoretically) open source and is as easy to use (for the end
> > > > users!). and at least a bit popular (among our pairs).
> > > >
> > > > if i recall correctly, at the time i proposed it, the biggest
> > > > concerns were about hosting (which is indeed hard, but i don't
> > see
> > > > how it can be an issue for the lgm: we don't even manage to
> > easily
> > > > host a static website) and about encryption (again, not an
> > issue
> > > > for me, but i respect that other people have fundamentally
> > > > different opinions on this!).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > that's was a long mail.
> > > >
> > > > hopefully, i was not too boring, and i really hope that we can
> > find
> > > > good solutions to the issues we are facing!
> > > > and i can invest some time in finding those solutions...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > have a wonderful start to the week
> > > > a.l.e
> > > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
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