[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 135501] Change the default UI (see comment 67)

[bugzilla-daemon at bugs.documentfoundation.org]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135501

--- Comment #76 from John Mills <jmills59 at yahoo.com> ---
@ Eyal Rozenberg

Thank you furthering the discussion, you bring a valid perspective and it is
important that all sides in the 'debate' are highlighted. 

The discussion around changing the default User Interface is potentially one of
the most disruptive (for good or bad)changes proposed for the user experience
in LibreOffice in the 10 years the project has been around.

The question for me is, where does LibreOffice(The Document Foundation)see
itself in 3 years, 5 years? For commodity software such as LibreOffice there is
considerable competition in a market that is relatively stagnant with growth
likely being focused towards online offerengs (Office 365, ZOHO office, G
Suite)and mobile. 

https://www.ciodive.com/news/Google-Microsoft-Office-collaboration/571740/

I read the Board discussion mailing list and there isn't even agreement with
the online strategy and LOOL might not even continue, but anyway that is a
different issue. 

My hope is that any change would facilitate the growth of the user base for
LibreOffice and introduce more people to FLOSS software.

>* I don't buy the implicit dichotomy between "enterprise" users who want >menus+toolbars and  "community" users who want ribbons.  

Can you explain this implicit dichotomy some more? I suspect that enterprise
users are also personal users when they are not at work.

>My experience is that most or all users (including less-computer-literate >ones) fare better with a menu+toolbars interface. And no less importantly - >with an interface that is static rather than dynamic.

What is your experience? This sounds anecdotal, granted mine does also, is the
static part you refer to the act of not switching to a different tab as opposed
to using a menu item?

I'll explain my experience, I am massive advocate of FLOSS software. I have
worked with Schools, charities and some computer labs at universities. As I am
based in the UK my views are likely clouded by this. Almost in all cases those
people under the age of 25 given a choice between using an office suite with a
'ribbon' or a menu / toolbar paradigm choose the ribbon as it is familiar to
them. I get much better feedback when I default their UI to use the tabbed
option. 

In the UK almost exclusively for desktop office suites(non cloud) Microsoft
will be used across primary, secondary and tertiary education. I do not have
the numbers to hand but I would expect this to be well in to the 90% range as
Microsoft either make the software available for free or provide substantial
financial incentives to the institutions to not move away from Microsoft
products. The Office 365 strategy feeds in to this.

The reason I highlight this is because all of these students will one day be
out in the market place, and human nature is such that they will tend to go
with what they have used before, and that is the 'ribbon' and that is Microsoft
Office. Inertia is a very real thing and Microsoft know this very well. 

The menu/toolbar may be measurably better by your standards or studies, however
the current UI of LibreOffice is more difficult to operate for this class of
user. And this will increase year after year. The tide started in 2006 when
Microsoft introduced Office 2007 and it will not dissipate anytime soon. 


>Additionally, people in our "community" are not so >enamoured with MS Office as >to expect us to copy it. And finally, like Dieter >said - MS Office UI is a >moving target anyway.


I think this is the critical point of your argument, "our community." The
millions of end users of LibreOffice do not generally care for internal mailing
lists or bug tracking, they want a tool that works, that is familiar to them.I
think that there a large disconnect between 'typical' end users many here that
it would appear to me have an irrational dislike for Microsoft and hence their
applications that are considered the 'gold standard' out in the real world.

If you look at the majority of desktop Office suites such as Kingsoft Office
(WPS), FreeOffice, Softmaker and OnlyOffice they have all moved to a 'tabbed'
like interface first. My opinion is they have done this for the reasons I have
outlined above.

The online version of Collabora office has moved to this UI paradigm by default
in version 6.4 of their productivity suite.

https://www.collaboraoffice.com/press-releases/collabora-online-6-4-0-released/

This is not about slavishly copying Microsoft, this is about fulfilling the
expectations of the majority of your users and seeking to grow LibreOffice
market share. And I do not think having a mostly stagnant UI that resembles
Microsoft Office 2003 by default serves the long term objectives of sustaining
LibreOffice and growing the user base in a crowded and fragmented market. 

I am happy to continue but I do not want to make this post overly long for now.

Kind regards,

John

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