[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

Italo Vignoli italo at vignoli.org
Thu Apr 6 22:14:35 UTC 2023

I have written that developers have a different mindset from marketing 
people. I have never said that developers are dumb people, and I have 
never even thought this.

On 06/04/23 23:45, Regis Perdreau wrote:
> Hi all,
> So if i understand correctly, developers are dumb people, talking only to
> its computer, and marketer have the privilege to speak to real user...
> Well, all the day, i speak to real user, and all say that marketers talk
> non sense about Microsoft compatibility...
> I wonder how to solve daily cognitive dissonnance
> *
> <https://context.reverso.net/traduction/anglais-francais/cognitive+dissonance>*
> Just kidding
> Cheers,
> Régis Perdreau
> Le jeu. 6 avr. 2023 à 23:00, Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <gbpacheco at gmail.com>
> a écrit :
>> Hi, Nigel, Ben, Eyal, all!
>>   Let me add some comments. :)
>>   For sure, the current approach is a requirement for our internal
>> development organization, as Ben noted. Also, it was really important in
>> the first years of LibreOffice/TDF, when we used it to demonstrate we were
>> ahead of Apache OpenOffice for the users and the strong project/community
>> we were building.
>>   On the other hand, for the current moment of LibreOffice as a project and
>> product, I think we can do more or different things. Nigel wrote
>> exactly what I mean about 'boring' from the user perspective: most of the
>> users don't care about minor changes.
>>   So, I think, now, we should decide about releases with a Marketing
>> perspective and the number 8 could be a first step to do it, even without
>> big changes.
>>   Could it mean we will do a marketing trick?
>>   I think no, because we will be transparent with our users as we always
>> have been. If the release won't have big improvements, we won't talk about
>> big improvements.
>>   Why release a version without big improvements?
>>   That is the other point: I don't think we should focus only on big code
>> improvements to use major version numbers (or even version names). We
>> aren't only a product. We are a project and community. Indeed, the released
>> product is our final work but a major version can also be used to spread
>> (or celebrate) the maturity of the product/project/community. This is a
>> different approach than paid software/non FLOSS. This is what I mean with
>> consolidation.
>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Nigel Verity <nigelverity at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi Gustavo
>>> This is a very good point.
>>> If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6,
>>> say, I wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that
>>> affected me. I'm pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0 far
>>> more quickly, if for no other reason that the psychological one of wanting
>>> to be using what my head tells me must be an improvement over my current
>>> version.
>>> Of course release notes are available to determine what really has
>>> changed but I rather suspect that most users never read them.
>>> The discussion of the different motivators for development and marketing
>>> people is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor anybody in
>>> my teams was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for very
>>> good reasons.
>>> Cheers
>>> Nige
>>> * LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice Website
>>> <https://www.libreoffice.org/> *
>>> * Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data*
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <gbpacheco at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* 05 April 2023 22:05
>>> *To:* TDF Devs <libreoffice at lists.freedesktop.org>; TDF Marketing <
>>> marketing at global.libreoffice.org>; TDF Design <
>>> design at global.libreoffice.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving
>>> to LibreOffice 8?
>>> Hi Eyal, all!
>>>   I also respectfully disagree with you on some points. ;D
>>>   I like the idea to move to 8, even with no big technical innovation (if
>>> we
>>> have, for sure it will be better).
>>>   IMHO, long sequences of minor releases (7.6, in the current case) are
>>> getting boring and not important for the users (for both enterprise and
>>> individual profiles).
>>>   I'm not saying that we should embrace the Firefox approach, but thinking
>>> about Italo's idea (8 <-> infinite), I guess the message of this version
>>> could be consolidation, not exactly innovation.
>>> Best
>>> Gustavo
>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:23 AM Eyal Rozenberg <eyalroz1 at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>> I respectfully disagree with Italo.
>>>> First, about the "frame of reference". In my opinion, decisions such as
>>>> major version number bumping are not, first and foremost, marketing
>>>> decisions. That is a _consideration_, since the version number is
>>>> declarative than technical. But - such an action should be "truthful"
>>>> before being "marketable".
>>>> It is more important, in my opinion, that users and potential users
>>>> receive trustworthy signaling from the project - not just w.r.t. version
>>>> numbers, but generally - than for the media to get a gimmick for
>>> coverage.
>>>> A second point is that bumping a version number without a major
>>>> innovation moves you a few more steps into the category of, say, Firefox
>>>> and such, where versions just increase automatically with no meaning
>>>> whatsoever. Italo, you said we are perceived as a "real innovator";
>>>> well, when a real innovator starts having hollow version number bumping,
>>>> that perception fades.
>>>> Finally, everyone who likes the marketing potential of version 8 -
>>>> great, but - keep that benefit for when we have a significant step
>>>> forward to celebrate. Don't squander it.
>>>> Eyal
>>>> PS:  availability on a new platform is not a reason to bump a version
>>>> number. It's the "same" software, but built for another target, so same
>>>> version as before. IMHO anyway.
>>>> On 27/03/2023 20:11, Italo Vignoli wrote:
>>>>> Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
>>>>> purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in
>>>>> the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists is
>>>>> that we are forever stuck at 7.x.
>>>>> We all know that the next version will not include any significant
>>>>> innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the new
>>>>> build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm
>>>>> processors on Windows (which has not been announced).
>>>>> Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
>>>>> "infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for an
>>>>> infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all
>>>>> operating systems for personal productivity.
>>>>> This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't
>>>>> insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for the
>>>>> marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that
>>> I
>>>>> am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision
>>> on
>>>>> the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have a
>>>>> very short memory).
>>>>> Looking forward to your thoughts.
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscribe at global.libreoffice.org
>>>> Problems?
Italo Vignoli - italo at vignoli.org
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