[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

Thu Apr 6 23:50:14 UTC 2023

So, I agree with the proposal. L8 could be seen as a new start and not an
achievement... new developers mean new functionalities, evolving
organization. I think we can build something around that. Marketed as the
mix of different knowledge as distinguishing elements.

Regards,

Régis

Le ven. 7 avr. 2023 à 00:14, Italo Vignoli <italo at vignoli.org> a écrit :

> I have written that developers have a different mindset from marketing
> people. I have never said that developers are dumb people, and I have
> never even thought this.
>
> On 06/04/23 23:45, Regis Perdreau wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So if i understand correctly, developers are dumb people, talking only to
> > its computer, and marketer have the privilege to speak to real user...
> > Well, all the day, i speak to real user, and all say that marketers talk
> > non sense about Microsoft compatibility...
> > I wonder how to solve daily cognitive dissonnance
> > *
> > <
> https://context.reverso.net/traduction/anglais-francais/cognitive+dissonance
> >*
> > Just kidding
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Régis Perdreau
> >
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 6 avr. 2023 à 23:00, Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <
> gbpacheco at gmail.com>
> > a écrit :
> >
> >> Hi, Nigel, Ben, Eyal, all!
> >>
> >>   Let me add some comments. :)
> >>
> >>   For sure, the current approach is a requirement for our internal
> >> development organization, as Ben noted. Also, it was really important in
> >> the first years of LibreOffice/TDF, when we used it to demonstrate we
> were
> >> ahead of Apache OpenOffice for the users and the strong
> project/community
> >> we were building.
> >>
> >>   On the other hand, for the current moment of LibreOffice as a project
> and
> >> product, I think we can do more or different things. Nigel wrote
> >> exactly what I mean about 'boring' from the user perspective: most of
> the
> >> users don't care about minor changes.
> >>
> >>   So, I think, now, we should decide about releases with a Marketing
> >> perspective and the number 8 could be a first step to do it, even
> without
> >> big changes.
> >>
> >>   Could it mean we will do a marketing trick?
> >>
> >>   I think no, because we will be transparent with our users as we always
> >> have been. If the release won't have big improvements, we won't talk
> about
> >> big improvements.
> >>
> >>   Why release a version without big improvements?
> >>
> >>   That is the other point: I don't think we should focus only on big
> code
> >> improvements to use major version numbers (or even version names). We
> >> aren't only a product. We are a project and community. Indeed, the
> released
> >> product is our final work but a major version can also be used to spread
> >> (or celebrate) the maturity of the product/project/community. This is a
> >> different approach than paid software/non FLOSS. This is what I mean
> with
> >> consolidation.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 8:22 AM Nigel Verity <nigelverity at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Gustavo
> >>>
> >>> This is a very good point.
> >>>
> >>> If I see that some software I use regularly has gone from 7.5 to 7.6,
> >>> say, I wouldn't rush to upgrade unless I knew it fixed a problem that
> >>> affected me. I'm pretty sure that I would upgrade from 7.5 to to 8.0
> far
> >>> more quickly, if for no other reason that the psychological one of
> wanting
> >>> to be using what my head tells me must be an improvement over my
> current
> >>> version.
> >>>
> >>> Of course release notes are available to determine what really has
> >>> changed but I rather suspect that most users never read them.
> >>>
> >>> The discussion of the different motivators for development and
> marketing
> >>> people is very interesting. When I was a developer neither I nor
> anybody in
> >>> my teams was ever let anywhere near sales activities - and I think for
> very
> >>> good reasons.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Nige
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * LibreOffice - Free and open source office suite: LibreOffice Website
> >>> <https://www.libreoffice.org/> *
> >>> * Respects your privacy, and gives you back control over your data*
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *From:* Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco <gbpacheco at gmail.com>
> >>> *Sent:* 05 April 2023 22:05
> >>> *To:* TDF Devs <libreoffice at lists.freedesktop.org>; TDF Marketing <
> >>> marketing at global.libreoffice.org>; TDF Design <
> >>> design at global.libreoffice.org>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving
> >>> to LibreOffice 8?
> >>>
> >>> Hi Eyal, all!
> >>>
> >>>   I also respectfully disagree with you on some points. ;D
> >>>
> >>>   I like the idea to move to 8, even with no big technical innovation
> (if
> >>> we
> >>> have, for sure it will be better).
> >>>
> >>>   IMHO, long sequences of minor releases (7.6, in the current case) are
> >>> getting boring and not important for the users (for both enterprise and
> >>> individual profiles).
> >>>
> >>>   I'm not saying that we should embrace the Firefox approach, but
> thinking
> >>> about Italo's idea (8 <-> infinite), I guess the message of this
> version
> >>> could be consolidation, not exactly innovation.
> >>>
> >>> Best
> >>> Gustavo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 4:23 AM Eyal Rozenberg <eyalroz1 at gmx.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I respectfully disagree with Italo.
> >>>>
> >>>> First, about the "frame of reference". In my opinion, decisions such
> as
> >>>> major version number bumping are not, first and foremost, marketing
> >>>> decisions. That is a _consideration_, since the version number is
> >>>> declarative than technical. But - such an action should be "truthful"
> >>>> before being "marketable".
> >>>>
> >>>> It is more important, in my opinion, that users and potential users
> >>>> receive trustworthy signaling from the project - not just w.r.t.
> version
> >>>> numbers, but generally - than for the media to get a gimmick for
> >>> coverage.
> >>>>
> >>>> A second point is that bumping a version number without a major
> >>>> innovation moves you a few more steps into the category of, say,
> Firefox
> >>>> and such, where versions just increase automatically with no meaning
> >>>> whatsoever. Italo, you said we are perceived as a "real innovator";
> >>>> well, when a real innovator starts having hollow version number
> bumping,
> >>>> that perception fades.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finally, everyone who likes the marketing potential of version 8 -
> >>>> great, but - keep that benefit for when we have a significant step
> >>>> forward to celebrate. Don't squander it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Eyal
> >>>>
> >>>> PS:  availability on a new platform is not a reason to bump a version
> >>>> number. It's the "same" software, but built for another target, so
> same
> >>>> version as before. IMHO anyway.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 27/03/2023 20:11, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> >>>>> Moving to LibreOffice 8 (instead of 7.6) makes sense for marketing
> >>>>> purposes, as media is looking at LibreOffice as the real innovator in
> >>>>> the open source office suite market, and the feeling of journalists
> is
> >>>>> that we are forever stuck at 7.x.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We all know that the next version will not include any significant
> >>>>> innovation which can justify the change of version, apart from the
> new
> >>>>> build system for Windows and the availability of LibreOffice for Arm
> >>>>> processors on Windows (which has not been announced).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Playing with the number 8, which can be rotated 90° to become the
> >>>>> "infinite" symbol, we can frame the next version as LibreOffice for
> an
> >>>>> infinite number of users, as we cover all hardware platforms and all
> >>>>> operating systems for personal productivity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is my opinion. If the community wants to stick with 7.6, I won't
> >>>>> insist. I have received enough insults both public and private for
> the
> >>>>> marketing plan, and I am still receiving them from a few people, that
> >>> I
> >>>>> am not willing to enter into that process again (even if the decision
> >>> on
> >>>>> the "community" tag has not been mine, but it looks like people have
> a
> >>>>> very short memory).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looking forward to your thoughts.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe e-mail to:
> marketing+unsubscribe at global.libreoffice.org
> >>>> Problems?
> >>>
> >>
> >
> --
> Italo Vignoli - italo at vignoli.org
> mobile/signal +39.348.5653829
> hangout/jabber italo.vignoli at gmail.com
> GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0
> DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/attachments/20230407/9121871e/attachment-0001.htm>