[pulseaudio-discuss] Stream volumes as the universal volume adjustment method

[Mads Kiilerich]

Tanu Kaskinen wrote, On 01/08/2010 05:32 AM:
> pe, 2010-01-08 kello 01:02 +0100, Mads Kiilerich kirjoitti:
>    
>> FWIW I would make the opposite conclusion. The listening condition often
>> changes, and thus I often and quickly want to adjust the volume of all
>> streams. The relative volume of the streams is adjusted once
>> (attenuated) to match my preferences, and after that I don't need to
>> make further changes.
>>
>> My solution is to ignore the stream volumes and always change the device
>> volume.
>>      
> So you want the volume widgets in various apps to disappear or make them
> change the device volume?
>    

I haven't thought a lot about that. But I know for sure that I want a 
central place where I can control the volume of all active (and future) 
streams, both all of them together and individually/relative to each 
other. I expect that volume controller to be easily available on the 
screen, and also that the volume keys by default control the volume of 
everything at once. Volume controls in applications thus get irrelevant, 
but if they want to I guess they can implement an extra UI for the PA 
mixer, emphasizing what is most important in the context and how it 
should look.

(This seems to be close to what PA already does. But sorry: I haven't 
researched or grokked PA enough to provide anything but uninformed 
opinions.)

> Or maybe you want us to keep on doing what we do now, where you should
> not touch the per-application volume controls when doing listening
> context related changes. Ordinary users don't know this rule. Even if
> you know this rule, with each volume change you have to think whether
> this it should be done to stream or device volume so that you can choose
> the right volume widget to tweak. I would rather just have a reflex of
> turning my volume dial whenever I notice the volume isn't right.
>    

I also just want to "adjust volume" when the volume isn't right. But 
FWIW I do think the best way to do that is to control the "master" 
volume. If I notice that I keep adjusting the volume when I switch 
between background music and game sound then I can either keep adjusting 
the volume every time or adjust their relative volume. And similarly, if 
I find the event sounds too loud compared to my background music then I 
have to adjust their relative volume. I don't think there is any special 
rule users will have to know. Both the volume keys and the notification 
area volume control does what should be used most of the time. But of 
course, if the applications puts a volume control in a prominent place 
and it does the wrong thing, then the user would have to learn not to 
use it.

(But of course I don't "want" you to do anything you don't like. I just 
noticed something which seemed like a step backward, so I spoke up and 
said what I thought I wanted. I have learned something - thank you - and 
I hope you can use my input too.)

>> So if I adjust the volume with one application playing and then start
>> another application then the other application will use its default
>> volume and the relative volume will thus have changed?
>>      
> Yes. This is the problem problem with my approach, which I argue is
> smaller than the current problems and the problems with the
> device-volume-only approach. You can form a reflex so that whenever the
> volume is wrong, you know what to do without thinking so the problem is
> not so big. Although, I admit that for users who
>
> * use desktop event sounds,
> * change the listening context frequently
> * and most of the time have music or other "real" stream active,
>
> this is still quite bad, since the music volume and the event sound
> volume has to be changed individually and you have to go through
> clicking the volume applet. For those users I don't have other solutions
> than just dropping one of those three habits or living with the problem.
>    

FWIW:

I don't get it. Here you agree that there is a problem with what seems 
to me to be the most common usecase. What is the problem you are trying 
to solve, and in what way do your proposal solve it? I guess I need the 
"I hope you understand without further explanation" explanation.

Why do you want to change the stream volume so often, and why can't the 
master volume be used?

In what way and why and how do PA lose track?

/Mads