[Spice-devel] Identifying and removing potentially divisive language

Thu Jul 2 14:21:47 UTC 2020

Well... Your examples are contradicting: the "master/slave" relation used
in electronics or psychology are re-using the slavery concepts too... This
doesn't make it right :-)
Now I'm not working in electronics or psychology, so I'm not going to try
and change their wording.

Regarding changing it now rather than waiting: Daniel is mentioning two
hints - git, or github. As our code is hosted in gitlab, I would add that
one too :)
The idea being that if they choose a new word, it will become the new
default, and we could align with them for consistency, rather than arguing
among us and picking a potentially different name

This doesn't prevent us from changing words that are in our code (like
blacklist/whitelist?). I think there's not a lot of them.

Regards,
Julien

Le jeu. 2 juil. 2020 à 16:09, Frediano Ziglio <fziglio at redhat.com> a écrit :

>
> > On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 04:15:07PM +0200, Victor Toso wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 10:03:10AM +0200, Kevin Pouget wrote:
> > > > Hello SPICE community,
> > > >
> > > > following Chris Wright (Red Hat CTO) blog post on "Making open
> > > > source more inclusive by eradicating problematic language" [1],
> > > > I would like to suggest that we have a look at SPICE source
> > > > code to find out if/where such language is used and how to
> > > > remove it.
> > > >
> > > > To illustrate the motivations of this move, consider the phrase
> > > > "the final solution". I am quite sure you would agree that
> > > > these words cannot be used inside a project. You would agree
> > > > because the WWII events are still in minds and not so ancient
> > > > yet.  Git "master", or the "master/slave" pattern may not
> > > > trigger similar thoughts if your ancestors didn't suffer
> > > > slavery; "whitelist/blacklist" neither, if the color of your
> > > > skin doesn't get you into trouble (white=allow, black=deny).
> > > > Overall, I would advise, when thinking about these questions,
> > > > not to forget on which side your history/country/skin
> > > > color/sexual orientation sits you. If it's the oppressor side,
> > > > you're not at the right place to say it's not relevant.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > > I had a quick `grep` look at SPICE code base, searching for
> > > > `blacklist/whitelist/slave` and I could only find very few
> > > > occurrences of these words, which is nice. Can you find other
> > > > problem words?
> > > >
> > > > `master` is used for git default's branch, but not much
> > > > elsewhere. Let's discuss if we could get rid of this one, for
> > > > instance changing it to `main` (just a suggestion). I don't
> > > > think that it can break that many things (only the CI comes to
> > > > my mind, where the `master` branch may be treated differently)
> > > > as git name default branch's name is often omitted in the usual
> > > > workflows.
> > > >
> > > > Please share your thoughts about this
> > >
> > > Not a native english speaker but I've read a few discussions
> > > around the user of master as git as in master copy instead of
> > > master/slave. Another examples of the use of master from native
> > > speakers included master as in school teacher or someone that is
> > > in charge of something (the offense being where the subject of
> > > control is the slave).
> > >
> > > Still, I don't really mind to changing it to main, even more if
> > > there are people that feel this can really be offensive in some
> > > way..
> >
> > I think the primary downside in changing the branch name is if we
> > end up with different branch names chosen by each project. There is
> > value in the fact that essentially every project uses the same
> > branch name for their latest development branch, as it gives end
> > users consistent expectations.
> >
> > I'm in favour of changing the branch name, but my inclination is
> > to wait and see a little longer, in order to identify what the
> > new defacto standard ends up being. "main" is a good bet as a new
> > standard, but it would be nice to see it "in action".
> >
> > I'd be looking for two possible signs
> >
> > Whether the Git maintainers themselves decide to standardize
> > on a new term.
> >
> > What GitHub actually decide upon & roll out.
> >
> > Either of those two decisions will set a defacto standard across a
> > vast number of projects, and thus it will be beneficial to have
> > alignment with those decisisons.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Daniel
>
> Hi,
>    I have different feeling about these changes. On one side I agree with
> Michal that these changes appears positive but they are potentially
> aggravating the real issue just hiding the problem.
> About the words I think "master" have multiple meaning, removing blindly
> because some meaning could remember some bad memories looks excessive.
> And even if this word is used in the "master&slave" reference hinting
> human slavery there are on the other side many uses (like master&slave
> relationship in electronic circuit or master&slave used in communication
> or in psychology) were this is far from human slavery.
> "blacklist" is very similar, it's used in a lot of places without negative
> references, "black" is simply a color which, being usually associated
> with no light is seen negative, not for race discrimination (like yin
> and yang concept). I checked multiple dictionaries and hardly find
> races references for "blacklist". For the same reasons we should remove
> wording like "dark", "white", "yellow", "black".
>
> About the "master" branch technically can be changed easily. I won't
> wait a "de-facto" change, if all project would wait a "de-facto" change
> the only name would be "master"! So if most of the group agree to change
> and like "main" I would just rename to "main".
>
> Regards,
>   Frediano
>
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>

-- 

Julien ROPÉ

Senior Software Engineer - SPICE

jrope at redhat.com
<https://www.redhat.com/>
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