Thoughts about decoration information in the xdg_shell

[Martin Gräßlin]

On Monday 18 November 2013 02:58:41 Jasper St. Pierre wrote:
> If the KDE team feels extremely strongly about server-side decorations, I'd
> like to see that passion channeled into actually building things. Write an
> extension that does what you want. Patch weston/westoy and KWin/Qt to
> implement all of this. Upload a cool YouTube video showing you switching
> decorations at runtime. Any or all of those things are going to influence
> me infinitely more than simply yelling at me for not supporting KWin's use
> case.
No need to write any code for that or do youtube videos. We can do that for 
four years now :-) Not with Wayland, but with X11. This is also not a KWin use 
case, but more a use case important for any tiling setup.

And once more for understanding: it's not about server-side-decorations. It's 
just about telling the client "please draw some window management handles" and 
"please do not draw some window management handles". How this is done, I 
hardly care and I do not want to bikeshed about whether to do CSD or SSD. I'm 
quite aware that my opinion is not mainstream :-)

If nobody sees the need to add this to xdg_shell I can certainly live with it. 
I find it sad, because I think it's important to also support tiling setups. 
We certainly can do what we need in Qt or our QPA plugin, this will cover my 
personal itch as it means all apps I use will do it.

Cheers
Martin
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Thiago Macieira
> 
> <thiago.macieira at intel.com>wrote:
> > On segunda-feira, 18 de novembro de 2013 08:20:37, Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > > I'm afraid that exactly that will happen then and I think it's the
> > 
> > shell's
> > 
> > > responsibility to enforce the style. For things like Plasma Active or
> > 
> > other
> > 
> > > tiling setups we need to have the client without decorations. Our users
> > > will not consider it as an application bug, it's a bug in our system. I
> > > might be overly skeptical here, but my experience unfortunately is, that
> > > apps and toolkits (exception Qt) do not try to integrate with the
> > > environment.
> > 
> > Understood, but discussion on IRC shows that other toolkits do not want to
> > add
> > the feature and that Kristian does not want to make it mandatory either.
> > You're the losing voice here, Martin.
> > 
> > Do the best you can for kwin and Qt will help you. If other applications
> > look
> > out of place, we'll have to do our best to get users to report the issues
> > as
> > bugs.
> > 
> > If you're right about your decision, other toolkits will eventually come
> > around and implement similar functionality. If you're wrong, then they
> > will
> > keep doing what they're doing.
> > 
> > Also note that there's another way of solving the problem: clients
> > continue to
> > decorate by themselves, but the clients somehow find the information
> > describing
> > what they should decorate with. That means you get the consistency *and*
> > the
> > performance of client-side decorations. I believe the forum for that
> > discussion is the xdg mailing list.
> > 
> > --
> > Thiago Macieira - thiago.macieira (AT) intel.com
> > 
> >   Software Architect - Intel Open Source Technology Center
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > wayland-devel mailing list
> > wayland-devel at lists.freedesktop.org
> > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
> 
> --
>   Jasper
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