_NET_WORKAREA and Xinerama

Thu Oct 26 07:17:20 EEST 2006

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:56:23 +0400 "Oleg Sukhodolsky" <son.two at gmail.com>
babbled:

> On 10/26/06, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:54:29 +0400 "Oleg Sukhodolsky" <son.two at gmail.com>
> > babbled:
> >
> > > Ok, if _NET_WORKAREA is too restrictive and Xinerama is one case which
> > > shows the problem.  Are there any plans to change spec to resolve this
> > > problem?
> >
> > don't look at me. :) you have to get this past the people who control the
> > spec.
> 
> I though that this list is a right place to ask/discuss this.  Or all
> such people gone to other aliases ;)

they should be here - but only a select few have the privilege of being able to
change the specs. it doesn't matter if you are right, wrong, it's a good idea
or a lot of people agree with the idea - you need those select few to agree and
put in changes.

> Oleg.
> 
> >
> > > Thanks, Oleg.
> > >
> > > On 10/25/06, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:38:05 +0400 "Oleg Sukhodolsky"
> > > > <son.two at gmail.com> babbled:
> > > >
> > > > > On 10/24/06, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:06:43 +0400 "Oleg Sukhodolsky"
> > > > > > <son.two at gmail.com> babbled:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > But results you will have may differ from the area which WM
> > > > > > > consider as workarea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > correc - the wm gets to decide how to figure it out. the user then
> > > > > > gets to tell the wm what algorithm or method to use (minimum area,
> > > > > > generous, shaped, maximum etc. etc.)
> > > > >
> > > > > So, if we want to be consistent with WM we have to use _NET_WORKAREA,
> > > > > but it doesn't work for Xinerama and this returns us to beginning of
> > > > > the discussion :(
> > > >
> > > > no - _NET_WORKAREA is broken in that it defines a single area only. if
> > > > you define such region(s) by simply placing panels or "fake obstacles"
> > > > around the edges of your screen, the wm can figure out what the
> > > > workarea is - the wm then can handle maximizing and fullscreening of
> > > > windows as it sees fit based on it's interpretation. wrt. filemanager's
> > > > icons i can see how not knowing this area can then be a problem - but
> > > > the fact that it is just a simple rectangle is  too limiting. i.e.:
> > > >
> > > > # = panel.
> > > > . = current workarea
> > > > : = actual usable workarea
> > > > +----------------------+
> > > > |##::::::::::::::::::##|
> > > > |......................|
> > > > |......................|
> > > > |......................|
> > > > |:::::::::::::::#######|
> > > > +----------------------+
> > > >
> > > > the old "workarea" limits you to the "." region. in theory icons windows
> > > > etc. can be placed and "maximised" to use the ":" regions too. the "work
> > > > area" is a region of "rectangles" where count is >= 1 that together
> > > > form a shape/region. imho something (let's say the wm) is in charge of
> > > > taking the obstacles ("#" windows) and figuring out what regions
> > > > outside these windows it wants to use for what. xinerama just extends
> > > > this model to the below: +----------------------+----------------------+
> > > > |##::::::::::::::::::##|####::::::::::::::::##|
> > > > |......................|:.....................|
> > > > |......................|#.....................|
> > > > |......................|#.....................|
> > > > |:::::::::::::::#######|----------------------+
> > > > +----------------------+
> > > >
> > > > for example. so what you actually need is a way of defining N regions
> > > > with each using M rectangles.
> > > >
> > > > 2 ways to do this.
> > > > 1. provide multiple windows - never map them, set their shape. add
> > > > properties to them so any app can find them (make them immediate
> > > > children of root). then u can get their shape. problem - this relies on
> > > > the shape extension existing. a pretty good bet these days, but maybe
> > > > in principle a bad thing to have as a standard for netwm stuff.
> > > > 2. extends the workarea property and place it on 2 windows (as above)
> > > > and allow N sets of co-ords (N*4 card's) and thus be able to have
> > > > multiple regions each with multipe rects. wm should list the largest
> > > > (main rect) first to save extra processing by clients - but the extra
> > > > rects can cover all the other extents that can be used too.
> > > >
> > > > > Oleg.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Oleg.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/24/06, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <raster at rasterman.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 17:06:57 +0400 "Oleg Sukhodolsky"
> > > > > > > > <son.two at gmail.com> babbled:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I need to know workarea, but it looks like it doesn't work
> > > > > > > > > well for Xinerama : (
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I've found couple discussions on this subject:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/wm-spec-list/2003-March/msg00003.html
> > > > > > > > > http://mail.gnome.org/archives/wm-spec-list/2004-March/msg00000.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, are there any plans to enhance the spec to work well with
> > > > > > > > > Xinerama?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > personally i think workarea is not that useful - "work area"(s)
> > > > > > > > can be calculated FROM known obsctacles on screens (like
> > > > > > > > panels, etc. etc.). all you need is a way of providing virtual
> > > > > > > > obstacles.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks, Oleg.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xdg mailing list
> > > > > xdg at lists.freedesktop.org
> > > > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
> > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com
> > > > 裸好多
> > > > Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xdg mailing list
> > > xdg at lists.freedesktop.org
> > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
> > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com
> > 裸好多
> > Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)
> >
> _______________________________________________
> xdg mailing list
> xdg at lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
> 

-- 
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster at rasterman.com
裸好多
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)