[CREATE] Last round of comments: LGM Code of Conduct

[Louis Desjardins]

2014-05-26 10:04 GMT-04:00 Louis Desjardins <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>:

> 2014-05-26 8:39 GMT-04:00 Femke Snelting <snelting at collectifs.net>:
>
>> Dear Ale, Anders,
>>
>> As you can imagine your point of view has come up in the many discussions
>> that lead to the formulation of this document.
>>
>> The reason to have examples included, is that experience learns (from
>> many other groups that have done CoCs and/or that have dealt with
>> harassment), that concrete cases are necessary in order for a CoC to work.
>> The argument being that it should be explicit from the start that
>> harassment is a reality and that it should not be the problem of someone
>> that feels harassed to convince others that such behaviour exists. Even
>> when the general tone of the document is constructive, this  CoC exists for
>> a reason.
>>
>> So while all involved in the drafting of it agreed to have examples, we
>> felt it was not up to us to formulate a list of specific cases. We decided
>> to refer to the timeline of incidents, as it is the only well-documented
>> page on harassment in relevant contexts that we are aware of.
>>
>> The LGM-CoC addresses all types of harassment, and not only those that
>> are gender related. While I think the 'geek' and 'feminism' in the url is a
>> detail, I do share your concern that the examples are mainly gender related
>> (it is not true that they are only about harassment against women).
>>
>
> Hi Femke,
>
> I think the fact that "the examples are mainly gender related", while the
> possible behaviors we want to avoid and act upon embraces a wider range of
> threats, is at the heart of the concerns expressed here.
>
> To sort this out, I would suggest we include a couple more examples that
> are not gender specific (examples below).
>
> I don’t know if this would make a consensus but I would hope so.
>
> For one, I feel a bit uncomfortable with that only one link and after
> having read the comments.
>
> I also agree that the links should go towards a page we have control over
> as Simon as pointed it.
>
>
>> At the end of the day we were more concerned by not having any examples
>> at all, than to have only examples of a limited  scope. Of course, if there
>> are other sources that you can suggest, it would be very good to include
>> them.
>>
>
> From the Swansea University (UK) we have well written definitions and
> examples followed by a section about what to do when being harassed or
> feeling harassed that could inspire us for the "how to deal with issues".
>
> https://www.swan.ac.uk/registry/academicguide/conductandcomplaints/dignityatworkandstudycombatingharassment/1introduction/
>
>
> From École Polytechnique de Montréal (English version of the document).
> Especially the section about definition is of much interest in my view and
> has the benefit of putting into a simple wording what is harassment without
> going into all the details. Well worth reading, I think.
> http://www.polymtl.ca/sg/docs_officiels/en/1310har3.htm
>

Yet another link, from our next year venue, the Toronto University (and
sublinks to the PDF file of the Student CoC)
http://www.viceprovoststudents.utoronto.ca/publicationsandpolicies/codeofstudentconduct.htm

Hope this helps.

Louis

>
> From the London School of Economics
>
> http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/staff/humanResources/reviewingAndRewarding/promotionAndReview/disciplinaryGrievance/harassment/examplesOfDifferentTypesOfHarassment.aspx
>
> The American point of view
> http://www.strategichr.com/shrsweb2/harassment_01.shtml
>
> Some additionnal links:
>
> The Ada Initiative
> https://adainitiative.org/what-we-do/conference-policies/
>
> The New York University Anti-Harassment Policy
>
> http://www.nyu.edu/about/policies-guidelines-compliance/policies-and-guidelines/anti-harassment-policy-and-complaint-procedures.html
>
> Python Software Foundation CoC
> https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
> and
> https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/
>
>
>
>>
>> best,
>>
>>
>> Femke
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26/05/14 13:06, a.l.e wrote:
>>
>>> dear femke and all
>>>
>>> first thanks for your work on this document!
>>>
>>> the LGM CoC looks good to me.
>>>
>>> ... just one thing...
>>>
>>>  - I agree that the reference to examples was awkwardly phrased and
>>>> simple is better:
>>>> "Some examples: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/
>>>> wiki/Timeline_of_incidents"
>>>>
>>>
>>> personally, i would prefer that line to be removed.
>>>
>>>
>>> on the one side, i'm not sure that a list of examples needs to be there.
>>> the document seems to be clear enough!
>>>
>>> on the other side, "geek" + "feminism" in the url and the fact that most
>>> (if not all) the examples are about women (i could not spot any about any
>>> other gender/sexual/skin/religious/you name it category that tend to be
>>> the target of "incidents"... but i have not read the whole page) does not
>>> match the idea that a CoC is there to protect each participant from any
>>> other "bad" participant. whether they are geek or not, males or women, or
>>> anything else they wish or happen to be.
>>>
>>>
>>> for sure, not a reason to reject the CoC. but -- in my eyes -- a detail
>>> that might be worth to be fixed...
>>> but you (plural) might also have very good reasons to keep that link...
>>>
>>>
>>> have a nice day and, again, thanks for the fine document!
>>> a.l.e
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