Fwd: Results of the freedesktop summit

Lennart Poettering mzqohf at 0pointer.de
Wed Apr 17 05:08:02 PDT 2013

On Tue, 16.04.13 07:02, Thiago Macieira (thiago at kde.org) wrote:

> Before I start calling this a conspiracy, let me ask here:
> Has anyone from the (current) D-Bus community got any knowledge of what the 
> (kernel) D-Bus guys are doing? Despite asking several times for it, they have 
> not shared details with us, they have not posted their source code, they have 
> not tried to interact with the current, existing and experienced developers.
> As far as I know, their current code consists of (unpublished) ideas and the 
> systemd-bus module to interface with the (unpublished) kernel side. Does 
> anyone know anything new?
> if so, please share with the rest. This is getting ridiculous.
> Lennart, if you have slides or notes from Nuremberg, please share them with 
> us. It's high time you guys came forward with your ideas.
> (A really frustrated) Thiago

This stuff is all open on the internet, but we are still in the phase we
are figuring out what we actually want. We have some code, but we are
not proposing anything yet. You know, we can dream up amazing stuff with
all the meta data, the memory management we can do in the kernel, about
COW and zero-copy, but you know, I don't actually like to talk out of my
ass, so we are trying to figure out first what *actually* works from the
kernel side, and what we need from userspace. And that's work in
progress. And when we know what we can actually really do, then we'll
write it up and propose it for the spec.

We sat down with Ryan in Nuremberg, since he's the GVariant guy and he
knows GDBus very well. We tried to get more folks there, but nobody else
came. You didn't come either.

You know, if you want to follow every commit we make, then please follow
our commit history for the kernel bit:


The current kernel API is here:


Some docs are here:


The client side implementation we are using to test the kernel stuff
with is in libsystemd-bus:


Most specifically:


These resources have been posted publically before. Not on this mailing
list, but you know, we are simply not ready to discuss this for

And yes, this stuff is all WIP, the API changes quickly, and we don't
want to have to discuss this all with everybody first, because: it's an
experiment so far.

I am really not sure why you expect us to discuss every stupid commit we
make on an experiemtn on this mailing list. That would be noise, not
useful for you and not useful for us.

So, calm down, there's no conspiracy, there's just some people trying to
think things to the end before they speak. I can only recommend that for
everybody else too.


Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

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