[LGM] should LGM or its site have something to say about Charlie Hebdo?

Fri Jan 16 09:51:24 PST 2015

2015-01-15 15:49 GMT-05:00 Camille Bissuel <camille at nylnook.com>:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm sad to say so, but it's clear that as a community, there is no
> consensus on the subject.
> So it's no.
>

On the contrary, I think it is a too early to conclude!

If I count well, we have 11 people who have shared so far their views on
the subject.

We need to keep the eyes on the principles that are underneath our actions
as a community.

We can disagree on any editorial line or on just about any idea... and we
are good at that! :-). But this is not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter
of principles. We are not discussing or supporting the editorial line of
Charlie Hebdo as I said previously.

This is no common issue. 12 people at CH were sentenced to death and
executed because some others disagreed with what they drew and wrote. These
avengers believed that they had the right to do that, and they did, in
contradiction with the state of rights and in contradiction with the
freedom of speech.

I don’t think that making a statement about freedom of speech can turn away
anyone from LGM.

Our main sponsor for years, Google, is strongly supporting the Charlie
Hebdo issue by funding them to a high 300K euros.

As it was mentioned previously, we can use our own words to express the
same idea. We’re not bound to any graphics or logo or slogan. We can use
it, or not.

Interestingly, one of Charlie Hebdo’s columnist wrote criticism against
wikipedia. I vastly disagree with what was written back then (couple years
ago). Yet, this is an example of freedom of speech. I don’t write “you
should not read that chronicle”. I don’t ask that the magazine should be
banned from publishing because I don’t agree with what they say!

We need to gain highness. If we fear we’re going to turn away people
because we claim high and strong we believe in freedom of speech, well, I
think we need a bit more to discuss and share ideas, explain further and
give better examples.

I think we do have a responsibility as a community to claim those
fundamental rights. They are at the root of our action. They allow us to do
what we do, peacefully and respectfully.

I hope the discussion can go on.

Louis

> But, maybe one day most of us will understand that freedom isn't something
> about we can choose to take no side, and that it's our responsibility. I
> understood it fully very recently. Sorry Chomsky.
>
> If you want to understand what I mean, please look at some drawings here :
> http://www.cartooningforpeace.org/
> and maybe see a movie :
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3409392/?ref_=nv_sr_2
>
> Cheers,
> Camille
> http://www.nylnook.com <http://nylnook.com>
>
>
>
> 2015-01-15 20:57 GMT+01:00 María Leandro <tatadbb at gmail.com>:
>
>> Hello all.
>>
>> If we were asked to write something for every time someone is killed,
>> some media is opressed and so on... damn we would need a new website for it.
>>
>> Even if the ones that are reading and contributing on this list might be
>> Ok to (or not); this is about sending a message that has nothing to do with
>> the community itself.
>>
>> Not that I have no feelings or don't feel moved, but when comes to
>> politics, religion, etc etc; all opinions should be personal and not in the
>> name of the community.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely; a monkey fellow.
>>
>> 2015-01-15 15:11 GMT-04:30 Louis Desjardins <louis.desjardins at gmail.com>:
>>
>> 2015-01-13 21:48 GMT-05:00 Gregory Pittman <gpittman at iglou.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hello list,
>>>>
>>>> This issue came up among those involved in the communication team for
>>>> LGM.
>>>>
>>>> In short, should we have something on the site which says either "Je
>>>> suis Charlie" or maybe "Nous sommes Charlie"?
>>>>
>>>> There has been differences of opinion on this, but what seemed to be
>>>> tacitly agreed on was that the smaller group of the communications team
>>>> should not unilaterally do this without some wider discussion involving
>>>> those who take part in LGM.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all!
>>>
>>> Since I initially raised the issue among the communication team, here is
>>> a summary of what brought me to suggest it was important to add our voice
>>> to the statement about free speech.
>>>
>>> We are into the freedom of speech principle. I can agree, or disagree.
>>> Nonetheless, I am not threatened and moreover, I don’t feel threatened.
>>>
>>> This principle is at the heart of our Code of Conduct. Freedom of speech
>>> is one of the basic principles in democracy. One other is the state of
>>> rights, which means nobody can make justice of oneself, including people in
>>> power, among other things.
>>>
>>> The whole point here is about "freedom of speech", not opinions
>>> expressed because of the existence of that freedom. Freedom of speech is
>>> also about disagreeing, otherwise it would be clearly pointless. We can
>>> agree or not about the editorial line of this magazine. Moreover, the
>>> editorial line of Charlie Hebdo has already been challenged in French court
>>> and in the end the court decided there was no offense. If there would have
>>> been, that would have ended the discussion.
>>>
>>> So, clearly, what’s at stake here and why people are in the streets in
>>> so many countries and cities and why heads of governments have been walking
>>> hand in hand despite their disagreements on so many other subjects, is what
>>> is at the root of democracies, freedom of speech. That freedom cannot go
>>> beyond certain rules but within those rules people have the right to
>>> express their views. They have the right to express their views without
>>> fearing the very worst, without being threatened, without thinking that
>>> their mouths will be shut by bullets.
>>>
>>> I hope this clarifies a bit.
>>>
>>> By the way, I am not a reader of Charlier Hebdo but again, I don’t think
>>> this is the point here.
>>>
>>> The discussion is overhead.
>>>
>>> I am back to my initial thoughts: the principle that is the base for all
>>> our discussions, including software development and globally democracy and
>>> "state of rights" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsstaat) is freedom
>>> of speech. Without it, no ideas can circulate easily. Without it, sharing
>>> and expressing ideas can expose to threat.
>>>
>>> Threat can be death as we’ve seen, completely out of any kind of state
>>> of rights. But threat can also be abusive justice prosecution — a new form
>>> of threat used by large organizations on citizens that don’t have massive
>>> money to defend themselves and are thus shut up and denied their freedom of
>>> speech. Within the state of rights and because of freedom of speech, people
>>> were able to address this new threat by a new law that create an obstacle
>>> to abusive justice prosecution, in the name of freedom of speech.
>>>
>>> I think that Free/Libre and Open Source Software and GPL can only occur
>>> under the umbrella of freedom of speech.
>>>
>>> For my part, I was under the impression that this would be a spontaneous
>>> call from the community, considering what’s at stake.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Louis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have traditionally been apolitical, yet maybe there is something
>>>> special about this incident involving free speech in the graphics and
>>>> publishing world.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> tatica
>> Maria Gracia Leandro
>> Blog: http://tatica.org
>> Portfolio: http://tap.tatica.org
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