[LGM] LGM 2019 - Funding

Wed May 1 17:20:14 UTC 2019

Hi all,

On 2019-05-02 00:12, Frank Trampe wrote:
> Hi, Pippin.
> 
> I know that this was offered, but I don't remember executing an
> agreement or any formal terms/restrictions. Even if there were a

As far as I know there are no formal agreements (i.e. a written and 
signed one at least). I don't think it should mean that such agreement 
means nothing. :-)

To be fair, I even find this a bit shocking to even raise the fact that 
no such formal agreement was written down. Is that the relationship we 
want in the future between projects at LGM? We should not trust other's 
words?

> formal agreement, it's in the GIMP project's interest for LGM to be as
> big a success as possible, and this money would go a long way towards
> making it so, particularly if it allows the GIMP to spend some of the
> money it currently spends on travel and video elsewhere. Certainly,
> for FontForge, which is admittedly not as financially resourced as the
> GIMP, freeing up some of the money currently spent on travel does a
> lot for the engineering budget.

We don't have an engineering budget. GIMP is not an entity which can 
hire people. I, for instance, am not hired by GIMP.

> I do not see the harm of having a corporate sponsor for the event, or
> at least one as friendly to the cause as Google. I'm sure that the
> relevant decision-makers at Google realize that LGM is dedicated to
> free software, and nobody is trying to subvert that. In fact, Google
> is a rather generous contributor to free software, including FontForge
> at one time, and a large portion of the technologies that make the web
> a first-class platform for presenting graphics (from font support to
> video codecs) are probably ten years ahead of where they might be
> otherwise thanks to Google's support of standards and free software to
> enable such functionality.
> 
> It is always important to be alert for enemies on the prowl, but
> labeling 99% of the world as "enemy" and driving away potential
> friends does not reflect well on an organization or advance its

I personally don't use the words friends or enemies here and actually 
don't personally care much about Google giving money and wanting some 
advertisement out of it, though there are some limits of course.
The fact is that it matters a lot more to some and that it was discussed 
with us previously; and as some conditions were agreed (not as a written 
contract, indeed! Still words matter to me; I know I repeat), it just 
isn't fair to suddenly change this.

Also for having seen the CCCvoc at work once, a few years ago, if they 
haven't lost any of their efficiency, the talks will be broadcasted live 
with live editing as well (and a very decent editing; quite impressive 
in fact as it has nothing to be ashamed of compared to professional live 
setups). Then videos were up on both Youtube and CCCvoc own platform 
immediately after each talk (not sure how long after, as I was not 
checking but at end of day, all videos were there for sure).

So if Google funding is to make sure that editing happens on time, this 
may be a bit unneeded.
It feels a bit like C3voc will do all the actual work, we fund them to 
be present and Google is the one to have a prominent logo at the start 
(whereas C3Voc and us get a small text statement in credits).

> mission. As before, I don't know the status of the GIMP/LGM agreement.
> But, whatever it is, if I were in your position, I would be thrilled
> to void whatever agreement was in place and to keep my project's money
> for its core activities.

Well we could do this.
Though we really were happy to fund videos this year. Pippin's email was 
not meaning for us to withdraw but to find a solution.

Last this was asked to us (March 4, 2019), Soenke told us "16:54 < 
soenke> @pippin ok spoke with Google - all is fine as long as videos 
(also) end up on youtube" (I was not present there, but I don't doubt 
for a second this was a faithful copy-paste done live, pasted this same 
day on #gimp, where I was and where we were discussing the raised 
question).

What changed since then? Back then Google was ok with sponsoring the 
general event while having their logo on the website and everywhere 
else, as long as the videos end up also on Youtube (yet sponsored by 
us)?

Also have we asked C3Voc if they are ok with the sponsoring change? I 
have no idea if they would still be willing to participate if Google is 
the one to fund them instead of us. I mean, that seems like an important 
thing to ask them (they are first involved and they are not a "service 
company"; they are donating their time here).

Anyway really our goal is to find a solution. As I say, we are not 
saying LGM should not receive funding by Google, quite the opposite. I 
mean, we were explicitly asked about this just 2 months ago, we 
discussed a bit on this on IRC and were told in the end that Google was 
OK. I find it a bit uncool to later announce something totally opposite.

What annoys me the most is not that Google sponsors the video (as I 
said, I am not 100% against — if I were alone to decide, which I am not 
— though the conditions would have to be discussed as current ones seem 
completely unfair: they get a logo, we get lost in a text at the end; so 
actually I would not agree with current proposition), but that there is 
a rollback on what was agreed (and that's important to me). :-/

Jehan

> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 9:43 AM Øyvind Kolås <pippin at gimp.org> wrote:
> 
>> Not fine!
>> 
>> GIMP approached LGM earlier this year with the intent to sponsor
>> video
>> recording and a social event. It was offered under the condition
>> that
>> GIMP is the only sponsor of the videos - *not* appearing as a
>> co-sponsor of the videos together with google, possibly not even
>> being
>> mentioned - which has been the tradiion when the shoestring budget
>> run
>> GIMP project has bailed LGMs budget in various ways in the past,
>> including funding the reimbursement of global travel budget some
>> years. GIMP was told by LGM that the google money was fine with
>> being
>> used *only* for sponsoring the travel budget - as long as the
>> videos
>> end up on youtube; under a permissive license.
>> 
>> GIMP is continuing to want to sponsor video recordings for LGM
>> under
>> the same conditions. We do this - both because the recordings are
>> important to have in good quality and we want to keep the
>> recordings
>> free of google advertising. LGM videos should not become an
>> advertising board for corporations; please lets limit that to the
>> website.
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:40 PM Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 08:47, Dave Crossland <dave at lab6.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, 7:21 AM Soenke Zehle <soenke at kein.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regarding the credits - since GIMP / CCC also help with the
>> videos, we
>>>>> may have to adjust the credits to reflect that.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Great! Please tell me what the credits should be and I'll update
>> the contract
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We don't need to block contract execution on the wording. I
>> propose this for the contract:
>>> 
>>> - - - 8< - - -
>>> 
>>> - A statement in the description field of each video uploaded to
>> YouTube that includes a text approved by Google. For example: "This
>> presentation was recorded on 1st June 2019 as part of Libre Graphics
>> Meeting 2019, at the Hochschule der Bildenden Künste Saar in
>> Saarbruecken, Germany. The recording and publication of this talk
>> was made possible by generous sponsorship from Google
>> (fonts.google.com [1]), GIMP (gimp.org [2]), and Chaos Computer Club
>> (www.ccc.de [3])"
>>> 
>>> - An image or set of images that uses the Google logo, any other
>> logos, and communicates the above statement visually shall be
>> included at the start of each video for 3 seconds or longer, subject
>> to design approval by Google before publication.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Libre-graphics-meeting mailing list
>>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>>> 
>> 
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
>> [4]
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
>> 
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>> [4]
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://fonts.google.com
> [2] http://gimp.org
> [3] http://www.ccc.de
> [4] 
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Libre-graphics-meeting at lists.freedesktop.org
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libre-graphics-meeting

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