[systemd-devel] Head ups - upstream first no longer applies to the kernel.

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 08/16/2016 10:27 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:

> On Tue, 16.08.16 10:11, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johannbg at gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> Yes kdbus is a good example why this should  not be done.
>>
>> Why not just have an experimental repository for out of tree, un-merged
>> stuff upstream and those that want to use/rely/test that stuff can build and
>> run it downstream?
> Because we want this stuff in the hands of people. In fact, we are
> interested into seeing the matching kernel patch in Fedora kernels
> too, in order to make sure this gets more presence.

I have to ask to what end?

This was not accepted upstream so is the plan here to expose this to 
larger use base, have downstream make the necessary changes to somehow 
pressure the upstream kernel community to accept this?

If Red Hat wants the Fedora community to implement this "for testing and 
exposure" for their clients and business partners they should do so via 
copr repo along with a kernel that contains this patch and any exposed 
bugs wont get fixed in the kernel community since this has not been 
accepted right + the first one that get's bitten by any regression this 
might introduced would be the Arch community and probably CoreOS/Google 
long before the Fedora community ( Fedora is not leading anything 
anymore other than it's community members in circles ) who are running 
like headless chickens now after the failed implementation of Red Hat 
product ( read as the products/editions/WG's  ) which has made the 
distribution worse off than it was when it was "generic" but there is an 
effort now making Fedora generic again called "modular" so it can be 
everything to anyone just like it was before and that circle will 
complete itself.<sigh>

>
> And cgroupsv2 isn't just some entirely random thing: it fixes major
> bugs for us, and is at the core what systemd does.

Which arguably is even more of a reason why un-merged upstream changes 
should not be implemented since fluctuating changes to such a core 
implementation in systemd can cause serious regression for downstream(s).

What's the long term plan here if the kernel community never accepts this?

What are you planning to do then and how do you expect downstreams to 
handle that?

JBG