[Clipart] Librarians be aware of http://www.freeclipartnow.com
chovynz
chovynz at gmail.com
Wed Jun 16 03:52:31 PDT 2010
Warning! Long post ahead.
For cliparts that are on our site versus on theirs, I think we can
safely see what ones came first.
For instance,
FreePublicDomainwebsite - Jaguar - 2008/03/26 05:54
OCAL - Jaguar derived from there - 2010-06-16 00:37:00
In this case, the uploader said the original came from there. It clearly
has it's origins in a site that does not understand what Public Domain
is. Therefore, we cannot trust the origins of that clipart either. (It
could be a scan from a Mink blanket for all we know.) This is not
questioning the integrity of the author, but the integrity of the
clipart itself.
If you give a link to that blue guitar, we can figure out "which came
first."
And, yes, there may be alot of clipart to hide. I'm not concerned with
how many cliparts there will be to hide, what matters now, is that we do
the right thing for OCAL. If I find a clipart that breaks copyright in
anyway, or is suspected to come from an "unclean source" I am obligation
by my understanding, of what Public Domain means, to remove that
"unclean" clipart from the Library. To do any less will pollute the
usefulness of OCAL, and break users trust.
As a user of clipart, it does not matter to me where the clipart comes
from. As a user of clipart, I don't care. It's all public domain.
As a Librarian, or a custodian of Open Clipart Library, I must care.
OCAL cannot have "Unclean Public Domain" works. To include "Unclean
Public Domain" works in the library, affects the trustworhtiness of the
entirety of the Library. If you cannot trust that ONE clipart is clean
in the Open Clipart Library, how many others can you trust TO BE clean?
Therefore, as a librarian, I must remove the "unclean" clipart, so that
people can trust OCAL to a greater extent.
It matters where the source of a clipart is from. If your blue guitar is
from OCAL, then you can be "pretty sure" it is Public Domain. If it is
from FreeClipartNow, you might want to reconsider using it, because it
might not be in the public domain, when you consider they have Donald
Duck there under a Fair Use clause. DDuck IS NOT Public Domain, and
should not be on that site as it claims. Fair Use is not Public Domain,
no matter how someone might try to interpret PD. He's a known,
copyrighted or trademarked drawn character. In no way is he Public
Domain, and just by including the Fair Use
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use>thing, makes FreeClipartNow's
entire collection unreliable.
It's only logical. It's the path OCAL must walk if it is to remain true
to Public Domain. Otherwise we become just like any other image hosting
service. I am passionate about trust, and about accuracy, and honesty.
This is why I do and say the things I do. Because I care about OCAL. For
OCAL to be honest to it's Phrases :
Public Domain <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/>
The actual clipart content on open clipart library is Public domain
Open ClipArt Library <http://openclipart.org/>
Open Clipart Library the best place for free Public Domain vector graphics
I can do no less than make it the best place out there, by removing
clipart that is not Public Domain or has too much "risk" involved.
A library, with no restrictions, with 99% trust rate? That is worth more
than my weight in diamonds my friend. I want to see OCAL grow, and I
want to see it last longer than I will. There is a valuable thing in
OCAL and I don't want to see it become, "Just another clipart site."
As for the "caring about restrictions" as a user, you don't have to
care. You can use any Public Domain clipart library you want to. As a
user, I don't care where Public Domain clipart comes from, since I can
use it in my designs. As a librarian of OCAL I have to care, because
they have asked us not to upload clipart from their site onto ours. I
see no other interpretation for "competitive venture". The fact is, we
are a competitive venture. And we are trying to be THE best clipart site
on the web. So I respect their request as a "sister site", hope one day
they will remove that silly exception so that we can share freely
together, and I leave their stuff alone. I will not, however, remove
clipart that was on OCAL first.
I'm not offended Jarod. I'm glad that you decided to speak up. It brings
more understanding to me, and to our readers. I learnt more about myself
and why I'm doing this by talking to you, so I thank you. I do think I'm
right though and I will defend my stance until you can show me that I
should change my mindset.
These kinds of discussions are where actual copyright lawyers would be
useful, because they could tell me where I'm misunderstaning something
or being too conservative. As it is, I can only go off the experiences
of others, and my internal gut feelings on what is right and wrong in
these situations. I err on the side of caution, because I value OCAL's
trustworthiness, more than any amount of work I am making for myself.
And at the end of the day, my hiding these things can be unhidden, if
need be. I'm not the only Librarian out there. :-)
Cheers
Chovynz
On 16/06/2010 9:10 p.m., Jarod Russel wrote:
> Fact is that if the majority or at least Jon decides not to allow
> images that appear on freeclipartnow, there is a lot of cliparts to
> hide. If you look through there archives you will find quite a few
> cliparts that are already a long time on OCAL. Just the other day I
> used a blue bass guitar I found on OCAL for a design and
> freeclipartnow has the same image in their collection.
>
> PD clearly states that there are no rights whatsoever. Meaning also no
> rights to make restrictions. Otherwise those images are not PD. It is
> most likely that the owner has no clue and probably has not even made
> any of the images himself, rather than collecting pd works. Therefore
> he has no right to make restrictions, why should anybody, whether it
> is me or OCAL care about those restrictions then?
>
> I see things said like "safe PD". There is no such thing. There are no
> different ways of public domain. Nothing should stop members of OCAL
> to upload these cliparts if they are true pd, and not like we have
> seen it here often, uploaded without understanding what pd is. For
> OCAL the main point should be to figure out whether the clipart is PD
> or not. Everything else like where it comes from or which sites the
> clipart can be found on does not matter.
>
> Something said on the end. If I seem to be rude or offending to
> anyone, be assured I do not mean to. I try to make myself clear as
> good as possible in english, but sometimes its hard to find the right
> words or ways to say something. So don't take my words to hard on
> yourself.
>
> Am 16-Jun-10 04:03 PM, schrieb chovynz:
>> Yes we did have this issue, but on different clipart. I was just
>> supporting the conclusion that I read from that thread.
>>
>> I think it does matter that other sites restrict use of their stuff.
>> As I said on some other issues, I really don't care, either way, I
>> just want to be sure I'm taking the right actions. I don't like to
>> make this kind of messy "legal" and "moral" decision, so I'll support
>> the decision we come to. I've been trying to pin Jon down on this
>> issue for awhile now for him to make a decision on it, but he keeps
>> dodging. :-) Ultimately it's "his" site, so a decision from him on
>> this would be nice. Do we ignore their Few Exceptions or do we
>> consider their PD free-game (and us viewed as a "bully".)
>>
>> At the moment I think our policy on "safe" PD stops us from using any
>> clipart from sites that make silly exceptions like this, because once
>> you put any requirements on a PD clipart, it's no longer PD.
>>
>> I would like some clarity on this, and I think ultimatelt only the
>> Site Owners (Jon + ?) can decide. We can try to influence them either
>> way.
>>
>> I'm against taking clipart from sites that make exceptions like
>> these. John Olson is against (as far as I understand.) I think
>> Nicubunu might be against, but I'm not sure.
>> Jarod is for "not caring" about their exceptions.
>>
>> Anyone else want to have their say?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chovynz
>>
>>
>> On 16/06/2010 6:21 p.m., Jarod Russel wrote:
>>> Didn't we had this just the other day? If their cliparts are pd than
>>> their "Few Exceptions" do not matter, except for the logo and
>>> trademark one. Such restrictions are pointless and can be ignored
>>> with real pd material.
>>>
>>> Am 16-Jun-10 02:51 PM, schrieb chovynz:
>>>> Clipart from http://www.freeclipartnow.com cannot be accepted.
>>>> Taken from http://www.freeclipartnow.com/termsofuse.php on 16 June
>>>> 2010, at 5:46pm
>>>>
>>>> *"Product Usage*
>>>> All graphics on this site are placed into the Public Domain, which
>>>> means that you can do almost whatever you wish with it. You can put
>>>> the clipart into your own drawings and documents without any affect
>>>> on the copyright or license of your work.
>>>>
>>>> Few Exceptions.
>>>>
>>>> * Company logos and trademarks can be used under "fair use"
>>>> policy. More info here
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos>.
>>>> * You may NOT use any component of our clipart or site content
>>>> to produce what could be directly or indirectly considered a
>>>> competitive venture against us.
>>>> * It's not necessary to provide a link back to this site, but
>>>> it would be greatly appreciated"
>>>>
>>>> Clipart affected.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> clipart mailing list
>>>> clipart at lists.freedesktop.org
>>>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> clipart mailing list
>>> clipart at lists.freedesktop.org
>>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/clipart
>>>
>>
>
>
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